Watling rol-a-top Reproduction.

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pogjones
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Watling rol-a-top Reproduction.

Post by pogjones »

Hi
I am new to the forum and wondered if anyone can point me in the right direction for solving a problem.
I have a repro roll-a-top which has worked fine for about 4 years.
I recently went on holiday and unfortunately left the key for the bandit with in easy reach. The kids will not admit it but someone tried to clear a coin blockage, and now the first reel will not spin but other two do.
I am sure it's not much but it's not my field and i cannot find any literature to help me solve the problem.
I am led to believe that the mechanism is based on the aristocrat.
Any help at all would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Bill.
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margamatix
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Post by margamatix »

There is a coin stuck somewhere at the bottom of the mechanism which is jamming it. If you remove the mechanism from the case you should see it. A torch might help.

That's my guess anyway.
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Post by coin-op »

There will be a 'kicker plate' which hits a cog at the side of the reels to cause them to spin when the handle is pulled. You could check to see if the plate is interacting with the cog relating to the sticking reel (if it doesn't then obviously this would cause it to remain stationary).
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Post by pogjones »

Have had a look at both of these suggestions, there nothing lodged anywhere and the kicker plate does not appear to be causing the problem either.When i put a coin in and pull the handle down gradually, all reels in turn become free. When the mechanism finaly engages the second and third reel spin and the first becomes solid. The two corrisponding large cogs on end also spin but other will not, but not sure if it is supposed to.
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badpenny
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Post by badpenny »

Yes the three large cogs at the handle end should spin as well.
Try playing the machine but stop the spinning fan ontop of the clock mechanism at the back. Do this before the brakes start to drop in. Do this by shoving a duster or something gentle over the fan (be careful not to damage it). Now remove the mech from the case, from what you've described you should have two reels spinning freely, one locked and more importantly everything that should be free of the reels will be withdrawn. Now take your time to look at it from all angles whilst gently rocking the jammed reel back and forth to find out what is fouling it.

best of luck
Badpenny
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Post by pogjones »

I have had a play and found that it appears that the fingers, which locate in to the slots on the sides of the cogs are fouling the first cog. When the handle is pulled the fingers move back to allow the cogs to freely rotate but they do not appear to move back enough to disengage the last cog.
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Badpenny rushes in where angels fear to tread

Post by badpenny »

I've waited a couple of days hoping somebody else would step in, but I guess they're all chortling with delight at how much I've bitten off here (can't blame 'em .......... it's what I'd have done)

Right .... well you've done the easy bit ........ now the fun 'cos describing the various pieces of mechanism, relationships and their location in the written word is akin to explaining the rules of cricket over the phone to a tree.

So stick with me: -
With the mech at rest, remove it from the case.
Identify the following bits-
From the back locate the clock with the fan on top. You will see a linkage from it running across the back of the machine (about 4 inches in length) it'll probably have a large spring running parallel with it.
The spring will be attached to a large formed piece of metal in the shape of a letter L (this is the payout lift and release) this is pivoted at its bottom left hand corner allowing it to tilt to the left against the spring when the linkage pushes it (which it will do as the clock winds up).
We'll call this Exhibit A
Hang on I'm going for a coffee.
Back now.

Now go and look for: -
At the side of the mech which connects with the handle, find the metal stud/button which connects with the handle and just rock it up and down, follow the motion until you come to the trigger (front) and trigger (back) these parts only connect when the handle is pulled and transfer the action to the back of the machine. The trigger (front) is in the shape of an oblong with the top right hand corner rounded off. The trigger (back) looks like a wedge.
We'll call this Exhibit B

Now place the mech back in the case, assuming your Watling Repro's door is at the back, you'll still be able to see Exhibit A, but not B.
Enter coin and slowly pull the handle.
You'll see Exhibit A in operation. As the L shaped piece resets itself you'll see that it supports the payout finger reset and release assembly. It should do this by staying directly underneath the round stop. Only by allowing the round stop to sit directly on top of this assembly will the fingers be held right back and clear of the large metal discs. As the mech cycles the clock will allow the assembly to return to its rest position which allows the round stop to drop of the end and consequently allow the fingers to fall against the discs.
Clear as mud? Great! let's continue.

If the finger reset assembly isn't fully retracting then fingers will foul the last disc. You'll see if this is the case because the round stop won't be sitting directly on top of the L shaped piece, or it drops off the edge before the brakes have fallen in. If you witness this happening then you can adjust the height that the payout fingers reset and release assembly achieves (in order that the L shaped piece may slide in underneath) by turning your attention to exhibit B.

Remove the mech again. You'll note that the Trigger (back) is held in place by a bolt screwed in against it. It usually has a locking nut on it.
Now pay attention because much care is needed here!
Gently slacken off the locking nut and retaining bolt, and carefully ease the trigger outward before locking everything off again. Personally I wouldn't go any further than a milimetre at a time without testing it. And only do this if the finger reset assembly isn't raising high enough to allow the L shaped piece to slide in underneath.
The further out the trigger is the higher it has to go before it loses contact with it's other half (Trigger front) This action converts to the back of the mech; and lifts the stop higher giving the L shaped piece more clearance to get in under the stop.

The reason you need to be very careful here, is that if you withdraw trigger (back) too far, the front part of the trigger won't clear it. You'll run out of travel and the mech will lock up. If this happens then you'll need to locate the ratchet that stops the handle from going backwards . Then you'll need to knock the pawl against the teeth to release it again. This can be vicious, damaging and result in personal blood loss.

If however you observe that Exhibit A is doing it's job and the finger reset and release assembly is merrily sitting securely on top of the L shaped (payout lift and release) until the clock mech moves it allowing the fingers to clatter across. Then don't touch Exhibit B, you have a different problem. But check that out first, and let us know how you get on.

I've just read this to myself and it makes no sense at all, clearly I am not to be trusted. Still it's occupied over an hour of my life and exhausted me.

........ think I'll take up stamp collecting!

Badpenny '!'
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Post by pogjones »

Here we go then
I have followed the instructions and found that the button is not sitting correctly! Have tried adjusting the wedge to no avail. However as the button mechanism is on like a pivot and rocks, in the down position it is resting on another part inside machine which stops it sitting down further. The L shaped (payout lift and release) however appears to be too far to the left to sit down anyway. I can take snaps if it would help.
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badpenny
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Post by badpenny »

Hokey cokey, it looks as if we're in the right area if nothing else.
The button piece ( as we seem to have christened it) only drops far enough to allow the vertical fingers to engage with the holes in the large cogs (as we seem to have christened them).
Photos would be a good step, especially immediately after the handle has been pulled, you'll need to stop the fan again before the brakes drop and you still have the reels free. No need to remove the mech from the case.
The following would be interesting: -
* Close up of the L shaped (as we seem to etc etc etc) including the buttonny bit.
* Close up of the vertical fingers
* Close up of your front door key and a plan of where you keep your valuables

Then let the fan free to complete the cycle and photo them again after the final clinky clunk.
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Post by pogjones »

Ok then
From bottom to top,1st is just after handle depressed, 2nd fingers at same time 3rd after completion.One thing i noticed on bottom image, long bar is it a brake? has a hole in top which could of anchored a spring but to my knowledge it's never had one on.
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badpenny
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Post by badpenny »

Congratulations your analysis that the vertical fingers aren't clearing the discs is spot on! And your choice of a Jeyes cloth can't be faulted!

So what's causing it? The operation of the L shaped support and the buttony bit look fine. So let's look elsewhere............
The fingers all pivot on a common axis which is a long threaded bar which runs from back to front. If that comes adrift at one end then all the fingers will be pulled by their springs against the first reel. It is actually visible in the bottom photo but my eyes are the same age as my Hi-top and I can't make up my mind. The axle threads at the front end and you should have the slotted end facing you at the back, I have known them unscrew occassionally and it would indeed mimic this fault.
The upright that you refer to is the arm thrust that holds the payout discs in place whilst the kicker passes underneath, its operation is goverened by a direct connection to the back axle assembly (which in turn is actuated by those triggers we were looking at a few mails ago) and from the photo looks ok. However sometimes it gets distorted and fails to clear the teeth in time, but wouldn't cause the fingers to foul.
Failing that it might be worth getting yourself back to the position in photo one then manually lifting the button to see if there is any play and you can tilt it further so that the fingers clear the first disc. I have seen once (can't remember when or what machine) a screw adjuster on the horizontal part of the payout lift assembly (buttony bit) where it sits the other side of the back axle.
It would have been a swine to get at due to being tucked away almost inside the reels. And none of my Aristocrats have one, so give that axle a check first.

I'm running out of medication and ideas at this end, so if any of the real experts out there want to step out of the shadows and point out the bleedin-obvious which has so far aluded me then please feel free!

Badpenny
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Post by pogjones »

Many thanks to you all, it looks like i will have to get it to someone who may be able to sort it if they physically have the machine in front of them.
I would appreciate it if anyone can point me in the direction of such a person within a reasonable distance of Doncaster.
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Post by badpenny »

:-( ........ oops .... sounds like I've either frightened you off or confused the hell out of you. You've done really well to have followed my ramblings so far, and if it isn't the axle the payout fingers pivot on and if there is no adjustment on the horizontal part of the payout lift assembly, then my final recommendation was going to be to get it in front of someone. Virtual problem solving isn't my strength.

As you say it was working ok before for several years, it's unlikely to be major (not impossible of course but unlikely) from the photos it doesn't look as if your kids cleared the coin jam with a lump hammer!

Sod's law being what it is, you won't be amazed to learn that I used to work at the old BREL works between Doncaster station and the new prison! Of course I am now in Coventry, very useful.
If you fancy a run down the M1 I'd be happy to look at it for no charge unless we have to buy/make replacement parts. However now is the chance for anyone nearer to step forward.

Let us all know what is found please.

best of luck
Badpenny :cool:
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Post by pogjones »

Good news!
The problem has been solved, with all thanks going to Badpenny.
It appears that the mech may have been dropped as the bottom casting was slightly buckled. Once certain screws where loosened, things started moving. What he has done to solve the problem, is to place two shims, one between the fingers and the plate where they come to rest and one under the mounting on the payout lift. Because of the twist in the frame, the fingers where not retracting enough and the payout lift needed to raise slightly higher. It now works perfectly and i have hidden the key well all keys from the kids.
Well done Badpenny.
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badpenny
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Post by badpenny »

No probs .......... glad we solved it finally, suggest you lock the kids up though before you hide all the keys :!:
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Re: Watling rol-a-top Reproduction.

Post by VintageSlots »

I just found your post doing a google search.

Glad you found the solution to your problem.

I have posted several YouTube videos giving advice on how to unjam Watling, Pace, Mills, Jennings slot machines. If you have further problems this might be of use.

You said you had a reproduction Rol-A-Top. If so, you might want to check out the Mills video because (I think) many reproduction Rol-A-Top used Mills gooseneck mechanisms.

You can get to the YouTube videos via my home page (http://www.IBuyOldSlots.com) I hope I am not violating a forum rule by posting this URL.

Thanks

Dave
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