Jubilee "Upstairs Downstairs" Questions

[zygo]

Gday from the land of OZ.

The other day a mate of mine tells me he's throwing away an old slot machine that hasn't worked properly in years. Honestly, how could I say 'no'! So, now I'm the proud father of a somewhat second-hand N&M Jubilee "Upstairs Downstairs" that's going to get some tender love and care.

Interesting case/housing, there's a viewing window at the top that looks through to a couple of mirrors in the back. They, through reflection, let you see the rear of the reels where there is another winning/payout "line".

I wonder why its not working.... probably needs more grease? ;)

Anyway, here's my question to start with (I'm sure there will be plenty more). The shot below shows the horizontal fingers that hold/release the payout slides. They look wrong. I'm not so sure they should be bent the way they are, especially the bottom finger which is recessed with a smaller width over most its length and then hooks around at the end?

Has anybody around got a photo of what they are supposed to look like? My guess is, if they are supposed to be bent. They have been assembled at some time out of order (top to bottom).

The same problem with the vertical fingers. The shot below doesn't really show it but the "kinks" in them vertically don't appear even and a couple are pressing hard against the top guide like the offsets are wrong. e.g. they have been assembled out of order.

Has anybody got a photo of the recesses/keys at the bottom so I can work out if they are in the right place?

Last, but not least, can anybody identify the year or tell me how to date the machine?

Thanks in advance for any help

Cheers.

[coppinpr]

Well, the first thing it needs is lot LESS grease. All the grease needs to come off and be replaced with a very little light oil and NO oil of grease anywhere near the coin slides. Unless someone has the same machine, it's going to be hard for anyone to advise you on the fingers. Your best bet will be to assemble them one at a time and test them as working. The horizontals are sometimes bent intentionally, so it's going to be trial and error. I'm certain we can work it out between us. More photos please.

As to date, it looks very late, mid '70s perhaps. Is it mechanical or electro/mechanical? Looks mechanical from what I can see. Interesting machine, if a little big

[andydotp]

G'day zygo,
Good you found us - and even gooderer that you've taken it upon yourself to be Dad to this poor, unfortunate orphan...(which on first sight I thought "only a Mother could love")!!!!
Grease!, wonderfull stuff - if you like your dim sims deep fried or V8 to run smoothly but Not good to slot machines as you wittily observed!
Coppinpr's probably bang-on date-wise as it would've been one of the last slide payout mechs prior to hoppers.
I'll have a rummage through my extensive library but it's not in The Blue Book though I'm sure I've got something, somewhere on N&M machines. (Oh, I'm in Melb. BTW).
Interesting there's six horizontal fingers to ten verticals..
From your accurate descriptions and Most Helpful pics I imagine you're mechanically-minded or have worked on machines before,,,,Do enlighten us.
CHEERS!! mate,
andydotp

[zygo]

G'day coppinpr & andydotp & thanks for the replies.

And the date is...... 14 Mar 1978...... at least that's the date I can see hand written into a small blue paper disc that I uncovered stuck to the main frame of the mechanism... and covered with an appropriate amount of the special dust/grease "preservative" that's been used extensively throughout. It's initialled, so I assume it's some sort of QA marker after the frame was assembled & tested. Tho it could be some maintenance marker, I'm going with the date as its Birthday!!

Before I go any further, is there an easy way to place photos in these posts other than the long & tedious way I did it yesterday? Mods, can you enable it?

Andydotp, you are correct, my history is 30 years of designing, building, installing, debugging & fixing special purpose machinery; fitter & turner by trade. Before that, pulling apart every piece of junk & broken kitchen appliance my parents owned..... just to see how they worked... and why they no longer did ;)
I am hopefull you can find some snippets of info in your library somewhere. The mechanism resembles a few pics I've seen around this site so I'm hopefull there's a similar Nutt & Muddle Jubilee mechanism around with the keys set up correctly.

Coppinpr, the machine is mechanical. The only electrics on the mechanism itself is a microswitch that is wired back to a "pull" counter. That & lights is the only electrics that I've uncovered so far but I haven't stripped off the faces yet to see what might be behind them.

A few new questions, theyre probably real newb ones too:
I've pulled the reels out in one piece, as they appear to be plastic, & my grease eradication program may be a bit harsh for them. First, is there an easy way to get the stopper arms from between the reels without pulling the spool apart? I took the spool out with them still within the spool (I'd post photos if photos was easy... Mods?).

Another question - is the only way to get the spool apart by undoing the clamp that hold the reels on? I'm assuming from my observations that when I release the reel clamps the axle tube will come away with the appropriate "payout" disc attached to it. Repeating the process with each reel in turn.
Is there something I'm missing? I intend on marking the disks with some fishing line through the appropriate hole so I can line them back up with the reels after cleaning.

Cheers all

[coppinpr]

First, can't see why you're having problems with photos, normally it's very easy. Just click the box below your input box, select a photo from your files, upload and place inline. Is there some reason the system is not working for you? Perhaps your membership has not gone through yet and it's restricted for some reason.

You will need to ease reels apart to get the star wheel brakes out. This is normal with all makes of machine and gets easy with practice. The machine needs to be half cocked (to the point when all the fingers are fully back) before removing/replacing the reel bundle.

Take great care when dealing with the reels, strips and payout discs. Separating the discs will mean removing the reels and they MUST go back in the same positions. Sounds easy but it soon gets confusing. There should be an illustrated thread I wrote in the resources section of this site listing the pitfalls.
If the reel bundle spins well it might be worth just cleaning it without dismantling.
Although the basic layout will be the same on all N&M machines (and in fact most other machines), the finger placement and layout WILL be different for your model. Operators will have modified the machine as well so take care - as Andy says, there are 10 horizontal to 6 vertical, so something has most likely changed over the years.

[coppinpr]

Can't really see the payouts from the photos but was wondering, how does it cope with the high payouts if it's all slides? Are there hand filled jackpots?

[badpenny]

How to upload images

The above link is Mr P's guide to "how to ..."

coppinpr is right in his short explanation in uploading from your own files.

I tend to use Photobucket.com, which if you're not familiar makes it very easy.
You first of all upload your photos to their website where they remain, they then give each one a code number which you copy and paste into your post, then black magic happens and it appears without any newts losing their eyes.

BP

[zygo]

G'day all.
Thanks for the heads up on the images, let's see how we go. First, my makeshift workspace:

When the workshop bench is full, there's always the wife's outdoor setting :O

That works well, photobucket not req'd.

Coppinpr, the whole jackpot thing has had me puzzled too. I did a bit of looking into it tonight and the answer is that it appears that there is no signal at all that you have won the jackpot. My guess is it has been "decommissioned" at some stage, if it ever existed. There's nothing but flouro electrics in the covered electrics compartments plus some low voltage stuff that's connected to the coin counter. See pic:

There's a circular clear area on the left of the belly glass that now looks thru to nothing but the side of the mechanism. Possibly there was some light or something mounted there at some stage but I see no sign of it or its removal.

Cheers all

[valkyr06]

It's handy that Zygo and I live close to one another. After we inspected my two Jubilees, we have identified some problems. I am sure that Zygo will keep everyone posted.

[zygo]

G'day all.
First of all, a big thanks to valkyr06 for inviting me to his home to have a look at his Jubilees. The chance to see the mechanisms of 2 working machines was invaluable to me. Short of having the original designs, knowing there is a working machine for reference gave me great confidence to strip the mechanism down & know I would be able to rebuild it. BTW, nice 'mancave' valkyr06

My machine & valkyr06's two have very similar mechanisms. I'd say that probably 90% of the parts would be close to interchangable. I managed to work out the way the horizontal & vertical keys interact to achieve an outcome and therefore what was wrong with mine. It took a couple of hours of noting positions & re-bending keys to get to the point where, I'm happy to say, she works a treat. But I jump ahead a bit.

I finished up completely stripping the reel spool - there was no way of getting that damn grease out of it otherwise. What I found after I removed the first reel was that there was a single 4mm hole drilled in each of the payout plates. The major payout on the reels lined up when the holes lined up, so rebuilding was a breeze. See pics below:

And after a bit of a cleanup I reassembled, adding a little light lube on each of the spools. About the only tricky bit was doing up the reel clamps without rotating the reel out of position. Found a little nip up, adjust, nip a bit more, check alignment & freespin, tighten up was the best process. I'll do a final tighten after assembly back into the mechanism.

As for the rest of the mechanism, I stripped a lot of the bits off and then gave it its first bath in 35 years.

And didn't it come up pretty, once that damn crud was gone!

Spent the day today puting it all back together again. Little bit of light lube as required (there's actually little oil points on every boss.... I can not imagine what made them think grease would be better).

Anyway, final assembly by 2moro nite, so I'll let you know how we go.

Cheers..... and special cheers to valkyr06

zygo

[coppinpr]

You were lucky with the factory set reel alignment holes - they almost always don't line up. I suspect because you have rare reel strips they have never been altered by an operator. It seems to be going well.

[badpenny]

It's good to see a proper job being done, that'll set it up for the next 30 years so long as the grease fairy doesn't settle on it again.

Well done chap!

BP

[zygo]

G'day All.
What can I say...... It's alive!!

[youtube]txFfW0qRJVc[/youtube]

All back together again, 400 coins put through in testing, not a single wrong payout
I have still to replace some of the springs with new. The old ones have been stretched & bent over the years but tho they look ugly, a little tweaking got them to about the right tension to be reliable.

The next mystery, as I mentioned before, is the majors. There's just no sensing anywhere or slots on the payout disks. Is this normal? (yes, I know, define "normal" ;)
Anyone that can enlighten?

Anyway, now to look at the cosmetics.

Cheers

[coppinpr]

There's just no sensing anywhere or slots on the payout disks. Is this normal?

Dont understand what you mean sensing for what? all the standard payout holes seem to be there, do you mean for the high payout jackpots? for these are a mystery to me as well without a JP unit or hopper. Do the large payouts work if so how do they pay? the slides cant handle them from what i can see. If the jackpot comes up what actually dose it pay as it stands now? is there a vertical finger dedicated to the jackpot only? if there is this might have had a light switch which lit the light missing from the low window. Even this is unlikely as machine makers and operators liked everyone to know when a JP came up, a small lamp in the bottom left with no mention of a JP seems a poor idea

[malcymal]

a) Hand pay?
b) It talks of jackpot giving player 'the drop'? Is there something missing from this machine? The poster talks of a gap in the glass, might this have been a visible jackpot?
As a machine goes, i think its fascinating with the mirrored double play. Havent seen one like this, a google image search throws up lots of jubilee quad reels but not this one.

[treefrog]

What a fascinating bandit. As the others say, the jackpot feature may be missing. As these obviously exceed the slide wins, maybe there was a token vendor once or a light and bell....

The mirror concept is genius in keeping the player interested and believing they had a better chance of winning. Can't work out why there are 10 fingers, as you would only need 5 for the standard wins upstairs and downstairs. I also notice the holes in the discs are quite elongated - wonder if this is associated with the reason for two fingers, as they looked to be possibly in matching pairs.

Why not try spinning while holding the clock vein and positioning onto a jackpot win to see what happens? Also, there is a transformer in there, which should not be needed for the lighting. Again, maybe there was something else in the machine originally associated with the jackpot....

Great machine though

[malcymal]

I was thinking along the same lines as you Treefrog. A light illuminated for a hand pay. Quite a few of the high paying Ballys (with hoppers) were hand pay. The mystery is in the wording on the award glass though, "gets the drop". What this would have been, who knows? I've searched the net high and low for this machine on various search engines and I can't shed any light on it. It's a shame there isn't a site like the Sega one which lists every machine with a photo of each one. I've been to Google Australia etc., and I cannot find any dedicated fan sites for Aristos. Shame, 'cause for me I am a great fan of them.

[andydotp]

Hi Mal,
Here's yer man:
Take a peep at UScoinopcollector - forum,
go to "Just Chatting" and scroll down to the thread entitled "Clubmaster Penny Slot".
Post your question there and I'm sure horatio7 will be along to offer you some pearls of wisdom.

Cheers,
andydotp

[coppinpr]

Post your question there and I'm sure horatio7 will be along to offer you some pearls of wisdom

If you can wait the six months it usually takes anyone to even look at that forum

[andydotp]

Now, now, cop'
I get your point, but please don't exaggerate... I've asked you not to a million times...
I agree, but when it's one of the topics of the day in Just Chatting, a response may well be there when you rise from your slumber in the morning.
Particularly regarding this one.
andydotp