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momo
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What is this horse machine???

Postby momo » Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:12 pm

I have an allwin type machine that has 3 x horses - 1x green 1x red 1x yellow
that you spin the horses and you gamble on??? any ideas, it has R SPAGNAL PARIS on the front I think (can't remember)

I have had this years and as I am not a collector of wall machines know very little on it.

I will take a photo and post soon.

Cheers in advance.

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pennymachines
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Postby pennymachines » Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:50 pm

Hi momo and welcome to the Forum.

There were quite a few French wall machines made with a horse race theme, so without a little more information (or picture) it is hard to tell you much.

I assume the name on your machine is Henri Spanagel of Paris. According to Jean Lemaitre's 100 Ans de Machines a Sous and allowing for my weak grasp of French, Spanagel revamped various traditional roulette slot machines by other manufacturers into a horse race themed roulette called le Grand Steeple or le Grand Prix (circa 1930).

momo
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Postby momo » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:22 am

Yes, you are correct, the machine is Le Grand Steeple and the name you say is correct. I will take a photo and post it on the site soon. Did they make lots of these?

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Postby momo » Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:25 am

OK, here it is, all information welcome as I know very little about this machine.
067.JPG
holiday 2005 florida 250.jpg
066.JPG

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pennymachines
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Postby pennymachines » Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:02 pm

A very attractive machine in my opinion.
I imagine there were only a few hundred made, judging by general trends - but I have no figures. Lemaitre gives it a rarity index of 2 - meaning there are between 21 and 50 surviving examples in France. As mentioned, they were created by converting earlier roulettes from several different manufacturers to the popular horse racing theme by replacing existing disks with three dimensional castings.
Roulettes were the favoured gambling machines in France and many styles and designs appeared in the 1930s.

For comparison see Le Grand Prix below, made in 1934 from a Mickey roulette.
GrandPrix.jpg
From "100 Ans de Machines a Sous"
GrandPrix.jpg (24.96 KiB) Viewed 6066 times

momo
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Postby momo » Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:43 pm

Thanks for all the information so far. As in the past when I have enquired I have just been met with blank faces! I used to have some books on these machines years ago but I guess just like the machine they have stored away somewhere or borrowed!

I found this site by accident and it made me take a renewed interest in the machine.

Does anyone have any ideas of value? Not that I'm thinking of selling of course but I've heard myself say that before....

Once again thank you for the info - keep it coming!

Does anyone else have one of these?

Cheers
Tony

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daveslot
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Postby daveslot » Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:18 pm

PennyMachines wrote:For comparison see Le Grand Prix below, made in 1934 from a Mickey roulette.
I always thought the Mickey was a conversion, made after the mouse became very popular in the early 30s. I presumed they kept changing the character to current popular trends.

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pennymachines
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Postby pennymachines » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:39 pm

You may well be right Dave. I was just quoting Jean Lemaitre. I guess some of these roulettes may have had more than one revamp.

I'd say momo's Grand Steeple started life as a mid to late '30s Bussoz roulette, judging by the cabinet.

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Postby momo » Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:45 pm

So I take it this machine has been revamped one or two times in the past.

How does this impact as a whole? Had I a Seeburg v 200 jukebox and it had been modified once or twice it would have very little value and be of little interest, so is this a common thing with wall machines or did they add to the interest?

Who is Bussos?

Keep it coming - as all info is good.

Have any of these been sold in the last few years and what was the feedback?

This machine pays French tokens which I guess you exchanged at the counter for????

Cheers for the help.

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Postby pennymachines » Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:23 pm

momo wrote:So I take it this machine has been revamped one or two times in the past.
Yes, at least once.
momo wrote:How does this impact as a whole? Had I a Seeburg v 200 jukebox and it had been modified once or twice it would have very little value and be of little interest, so is this a common thing with wall machines or did they add to the interest?
Certainly wall machines underwent all sorts of modifications during their working lives, to make them look novel again, less generous, work better, comply with stricter legislation, or in the case of foreign machines, make them work with British currency. This latter job was usually carried out professionally by slot machine importing companies with the facilities to do it properly. I think the value of your machine may have been enhanced by the attractive restyling (although we don't know yet what it looked like originally).

Having said this, many "professional" conversions do result in devaluation, even though they may add character and historical interest. German "Domino" wall machines lost over half their collector value when their original beautiful graphics were replaced with "Roll Out the Barrel" paperwork for the British market. Likewise, bandit collectors have always pursued untouched Mills "Hi-Tops" in favour of the British revamps like the "Black Beauty".
momo wrote:Who is Bussos?
Paris based former clock maker Pierre Bussoz (1872 - 1958) was a leading manufacturer of roulettes, allwins and other coin-operated devices.
momo wrote:Have any of these been sold in the last few years and what was the feedback?
French roulettes that were operated over here turn up from time to time.
When they do, I think they tend to be overlooked a little, considering their quality.
Obviously they're better represented in France, such as last November's Bernard Pansu sale where there was a Grand Prix, a Grand Steeple and a similar Spanagel horse racer oddly titled Six Days Men.
As for value - I'll let someone else tackle that thorny question. I've taken a vow of silence. (But I'm happy to make a private offer, if you ever decide to sell).
momo wrote:This machine pays french tokens which I guess you exchanged at the counter for ????
Some French machines were converted to pay out British Pennies instead of tokens. This often entailed quite extensive modification. Oddly, this doesn't tend to adversely affect the machine's value (in the UK). In fact, the opposite may be true. Many British collectors (me included) like machines which pay out the old coin of the Realm. That way, you can re-cycle your winnings.
Tokens could be exchanged for goods or sometimes cash, depending upon the location. This was more acceptable to the authorities in (Britain and France) than cash payouts.


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