Seven mysteries of the Saxony allwin

[john t peterson]

I have several machines that have the double coin/token entry. Just like the typical American casinos of yore, they allow you to pump in both your hard earned money as well as your token winnings until both are all gone!

J Peterson
Investment Counselor, USA

[gameswat]

Found this French Reserve Allwin on eBay last night. Interesting how different that mech is to any others I've seen. The artwork appears to be a hand drawn replacement. Hard to tell the age though especially with the alloy castings in the mech. Can't remember if any of my pre-WW1 French roulettes had any alloy castings in them? Rare et belle Machine a bille murale Aux Veinards

[13rebel]

In Mr. Gameswat's post of 30/8/15 he expressed an interest in the whereabouts of the Nic Costa 3 Ball Reserve with shocker. I am pleased to say that I now own this machine. The patent number supplied by Costa/Christies is incorrect. Whilst faded, with the aid of a magnifying glass I could read it as follows: Brevet (French for patent) 453788/13... under which is 453789/13... under which is Brit. patent 29915/13... under which is Made in Saxony.

The British patent is the same as the first French patent, i.e. Rudolf Walther at 33 Rue de Chabrol, Paris. This refers to the method of storing and releasing balls (pallet wheel). The second French patent is the same as a British patent no. GB191329916, again R. Walther, but refers to something rather different but with a similar component. Both these Brit. patents can be viewed in the patents section in the archive section of this site.

When I got the machine the shock function was on free play, not requiring a coin or a win. The wiring appeared to be vintage as it was cloth covered single core. Whilst wanting it to be true to the original specification I found it difficult to believe the shock feature would be this way so I asked a few people for advice but nobody could come up with a definitive answer and I couldn't find any internal images of this type.* My understanding is that a stand alone shocker would have a clockwork timer at the coin entry point but there was no evidence of one on this machine so I set about revamping the wiring, keeping the existing wiring and adding a couple more wires. I used the winning ball lever as a switch.

In using the win ball lever as a switch, when the ball falls into the win tube and rests on the lever, the shocker knob is turned and you get your shock (should you want such therapy). Then turn the win knob and your token is delivered together with a free ball and any balls in the reserve. This seemed to be better game play to me. Whilst these have a reputation for being generous, because of the gallery layout once you have filled the reserve section you can the play many coins before you land in the win. As regard the flap, with the automatic feed in place I think it is very unlikely that you would be in a position where you could fire a ball before taking your token as the free ball is released at the same time as the token is delivered and the reserve ball(s) will still be held. My, my - don't I go on! Here endeth this thesis, photos hopefully to follow after I've had a lie down.

Photos of 3 Ball Reserve with shock function:

[widget2k4]

Another mystery perhaps?
Why did mine have three exit holes where all others seem to only have two?

[pennymachines]

* The mystery of the electric shock feature is solved in this thread: Electra Amuser info.

[13rebel]

I found this website from Denmark, in Danish with translation available in Google Chrome (and other browsers?). It makes reference to little known revamper G.Robinson of Coventry Road, Nuneaton, although wembleylion mentions him in his post of October 30th 2013, 'which clown'. It shows how an Allwin deluxe has been changed from an allwin reserve. Other bits and bobs on his site, e.g. bandits. www.foghandersen.com/allwin-de-luxe-skilles-ad/

[pennymachines]

Interesting website - I've put it on the Arena Euro Links page. I've also added G. Robinson, Automatic Machine Manufacturer to the Museum Makers database (along with Robinson & Co. Amusements Ltd. and Robinson Partners (London) Ltd.).

[badpenny]

I guess the photovoltaic panels on the roof helped when it was a workshop.

[shiny penny]

I wonder if another version has just appeared on ebay. The seller says that a winning shot returns the ball plus three others plus a token! Any thoughts?

[pennymachines]

I can't see the advert, but it sounds like the standard Jentzsch & Meerz Reserve Ball, i.e. Allwin de Luxe Model A referred to on page 1 of this thread. It gives you a check (token) for a win plus your ball back and the three reserve balls. The check is paid from one of the five long tubes.

Confusingly, Bollands Automatic Supply refer to the token paying game as 'B' Allwin de Luxe Check machine. They also advertised 'C' Allwin de Luxe Combination, which had an extra slot so that players could replay with any tokens they won.

13Rebel's allwin above is the 'C' Allwin de Luxe Combination with shocker feature.

[13rebel]

If it is item 152891862676 the seller states that you also get your penny back - can't see this happening.

[pennymachines]

Indeed, I think that must be a mistake. Looking at the mech., the penny drops to the cashbox after releasing the ball. The manual reserve ball feed would suggest this is an early version of 'C' Allwin de Luxe Combination.

[shiny penny]

The seller has responded that a winning shot produces 1 plus 3 balls and a token (no penny returned) also that there is an issue with the mechanism for a token to release a ball. This make of machine was not on my radar but I am getting twitchy to acquire my first original Allwin and November specialist auctions seem a very long way away. Any thoughts as to realistic value would be appreciated. May fetch a premium as "questions to the seller" reveal a possible repatriation attempt!

[13rebel]

Shiny penny, just in case you are unaware, on a win a token, one ball plus the balls in the reserve window are released. This may not always be three balls depending on how game play has gone. There are four balls in the machine. It is considered to be quite generous to the player which is why so many have had their reserve ball feature removed.

[shiny penny]

Thanks 13rebel. I feel I may be hooked!

[13rebel]

I shouldn't worry too much about a token not releasing a ball - if it is an intermittent fault (something you may want to ask the seller?) it could be that some of the tokens are too light. This has occurred on my machine. Ask if the penny trips the ball okay. I expect forum members will offer guidance with any niggles. Good luck if you decide to buy.

[gameswat]

This unusual Reserve Ball Allwin or Winalot sold recently in the USA and note the added token or possibly coin payout unit, never seen the like before. From what I can make out it steps up slowly each payout and eventually deposits the token/coin as special random prize to the player. Appears to be a period operator add-on, and especially since there is no note of it on the award cards.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-WINALO ... 7675.l2557