Brenner "Ball Past The Arrow"

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john t peterson
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Re: Brenner "Ball Past The Arrow"

Post by john t peterson »

Hollywood, BP...pure Hollywood.

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Re: Brenner "Ball Past The Arrow"

Post by widget2k4 »

Sorry to bring up an old post.
Does anyone have a picture handy to show the area where I have arrowed on mine as I can't see how the disc will spin to move the arrow. It doesn't look right. It had a screw in that was catching the bottom lever to make it work and it was all bent, obviously not correct. Also, there is a spring arrowed and I can't see where it goes. It was originally attached to a piece of wire and screwed where the red circle is, again not correct.
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2016-04-26 20.36.29-1.jpg
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Re: Brenner "Ball Past The Arrow"

Post by gameswat »

The end of the spring that is still attached is to a horizontal lever, the right hand end of that lever has a long oval hole which sits on a pin, the spring attaches to that pin. But on mine the pin is on the other side of the vertical lever, which is the same side that spring attaches to at the other end. Hard to see much detail from your pic but looks like maybe the pin fell out and someone drilled the hole and stuck a bolt in it's place? But then re-attached the horizontal lever as mentioned above on the wrong side. Then they had to attach the end of that spring somewhere else and so added a screw to the wood. That would have also stretched the spring so maybe that was also to remedy some other issue with the mech not working optimally?
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The ratchet pawl is moved out of place for this photo to see where spring attaches.
The ratchet pawl is moved out of place for this photo to see where spring attaches.
The ratchet pawl is moved out of place for this photo to see where spring attaches.
The ratchet pawl is moved out of place for this photo to see where spring attaches.
Looking down from above with ratchet spring moved to show your loose spring position.
Looking down from above with ratchet spring moved to show your loose spring position.
Looking down from above - your loose spring is hidden by the larger ratchet spring.
Looking down from above - your loose spring is hidden by the larger ratchet spring.
ball past  arrow mech 1.jpg
ball past arrow mech 4.jpg
ball past arrow mech .jpg
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Re: Brenner "Ball Past The Arrow"

Post by widget2k4 »

That is fantastic GA, just what iI needed thank you. That's one clean mech you got there :)

Am I right in thinking the two parts I have arrowed in your photo is what makes contact to move the lever that spins the wheel?
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ball past  arrow mech 1.jpg
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Re: Brenner "Ball Past The Arrow"

Post by gameswat »

Yes, that's correct.
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Repair help: Brenner Allwin Ball Past the Arrow please

Post by garrick »

Topic merged - Site Admin.

Greetings, I have recently bought (at deceased estate auction) a Brenner Ball Past the Arrow Allwin which seems to be mostly complete, but isn't working correctly which I hope is mostly to do with the coin mechanism part.

Here it is — number 404 !

outside.jpg

And in the inside mechanism

inside.jpg

From what I've read here, it seems to be a token win version, since the win hopper is much smaller than the coin slot. Here is the coin mechanism that isn't working.

coinmech01.jpg

It has this spring-to-nowhere that I hope has something to do with why it doesn't bounce back into place when a coin has passed through.

spring02.jpg

In the main part of the mechanism, there is a rod that swivels at one end, bit isn't connected to anything at the other.

rod01.jpg

And at the top of this rod, where it swivels, there's another spring-to-nowhere.

spring01.jpg

Any assistance, and particularly photos of correct/working mechanisms of this particular model, would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.
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Re: Repair help: Brenner Allwin Ball Past the Arrow please

Post by john t peterson »

Gameswat, Master of the machine?

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Re: Repair help: Brenner Allwin Ball Past the Arrow please

Post by gameswat »

Hey Garrick, I guess you're in NZ since this machine just sold last weekend at the Michael Woolf sale. I currently own two of these awaiting restoration, but that won't help you sadly since both mine use entirely different style mechanisms. I have owned and restored an example exactly like yours but sold that about 10 years ago. I've attached a photo of the sold mech which might help somehow? I may even be able to find other mech photos if you're lucky. But otherwise I don't recall the intricacies of that particular machine since it was so long ago. Good luck.
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ball past arrow mech .jpg
ball past arrow mech_1_1.jpg
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Re: Repair help: Brenner Allwin Ball Past the Arrow please

Post by badpenny »

Sadly neither of those two, nor yours resembles mine. :!?!:
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Re: Repair help: Brenner Allwin Ball Past the Arrow please

Post by gameswat »

Looked though my hard drives but can't find any other mech photos to help sorry.
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Re: Repair help: Brenner Allwin Ball Past the Arrow please

Post by garrick »

Thanks for the reply, and the photos — yes, this was one of the machines in the Mossgreen-Webb auction last weekend.

The auction photos were really good, possibly better than the machines looked like in person, but they seemed to sell for what seemed like quite high prices. The clown catch and mine were the only ones that seemed to have any manufacturer information on them.

Your photos helped me with the coin mechanism — it was missing a weight on the coin trigger and with that replaced, and a few other tweaks, it is working-ish.

The ball trigger is a bit seized and the spring is stretched so firing the ball isn't really possible without a lot of upwards force on the trigger.

My plan is to get the mechanics working 100% but I'll probably leave the rest of it as-is — although the red is a bit (lot) gaudy and it's got plenty of scratches and dings, it does show a lifetime of use and some great patina that I'm not sure would be nearly as unique if the cabinet was sanded back and stained.

The most common allwin in New Zealand that I can remember (70s/80s) was this one —

519559160.jpg

and the Ball Past the Arrow is the first I've seen in NZ. There were probably others but the 5c machine above was by far the one you were likely to see in fish & chip shops and arcades.
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Re: Repair help: Brenner Allwin Ball Past the Arrow please

Post by gameswat »

Well done figuring most of it out. I did have other photos of that particular machine, but can't find them as 18 months or so worth of photos have disappeared from my hard drives! !!JUNK!! :smash: And yes I also like the patina of that particular machine and would leave it be and focus on getting the mech sorted. Can't tell you how many machines I've worked on for people that were cosmetically restored by previous owners to sell quickly but had useless mechanisms that didn't work, sometimes completely untouched and just filthy with age~! Whereas I much rather a perfectly working game with untouched cabinet.
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Re: Repair help: Brenner Allwin Ball Past the Arrow please

Post by pennymachines »

Re. the Skill Ball - it's always interesting to see something different like that. I've edited and copied your last post to the end of this thread: Australian Wineasies & showman's paint

I sold a working Ball Past the Arrow (same version as yours, but not token pay) to forum member Junior a few years ago. He still has it, so I'm sure we can wheedle some information out of him if needs be. I also have another unrestored example of the same model, if you need more close-ups.
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Re: Brenner "Ball Past The Arrow"

Post by gameswat »

Some more info I've pieced together on these, as Mr PM noted earlier in this thread they actually date back to the 1930s and into the '50s. According to the Braithwaite Arcades book he states a date of 1937 for the machine "Fun", which I guess is the real name of the machine, with the information from the World's Fair magazine dating 28-08-1937.

And on looking closely at the artwork on the three machines I've owned I've noticed that the earlier more complex mechanism has written on the front in a very late art deco style "Made by Brenner of Croydon", which according to the Arcades book dates the machine only as late as 1937, because that's when Brenner married and moved addresses. And on my later simplified mechanism versions the front states "Made by BW Brenner" which could date no later than 1952 as the company ceased to operate that year.
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Earlier 1937 name artwork..
Earlier 1937 name artwork..
ball past name.jpg (65.13 KiB) Viewed 5523 times
Earlier 1937 mech style.
Earlier 1937 mech style.
Later name artwork.
Later name artwork.
Later mech style.
Later mech style.
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Re: Brenner "Ball Past The Arrow"

Post by gameswat »

So it turned out I ended up buying the incomplete machine that started this thread from (BigBritPenny) John P. As usual he's taken advantage of my kind nature dirtdog. In fact I turned down the offer to buy on my 1st visit back in 2007 as I then only had the earlier 1930s mechanism version and both are totally different. But on the next visit in 2012 I'd recently purchased a pretty much complete and working later version from Chicagoland, so went ahead and took it off his hands.

I've only just taken them out of the garage to work on a few days ago and on close inspection the games were made very close to one another - the Chicagoland machine is #100A, while the ex JP machine is #117A! And I'm fairly certain both machines came into the US separately. Amazingly Brenner didn't seem to own a set of number stamps and instead hand punched with a small screwdriver!? Sooo much easier to fabricate the missing parts with originals to copy from on the bench. This system has worked for me many times. And there was quite a lot of fiddly machining to put it right. Aristomatic will be thrilled to know I used a little more of that leftover spade steel to make several of the hardened armatures that were lost. Someone did a terrible job of converting the machine to 2p operation and I was unable to salvage the original payout tube as they'd torched the hell out of it with bronze that I just couldn't remove without melting the brass. Pretty sure JP dodged a bullet by "forcing" this one on to me........ :o I imagine a container load of Bussoz "La Girouettes" and "Auto-Talkie" Mutoscopes will be arriving any time soon........ :!:
Attachments
Parts with red dots had to be fabricated.
Parts with red dots had to be fabricated.
#100A on the left - #117A on the right.
#100A on the left - #117A on the right.
ball past arrow #2 serial 100.jpg
ball past arrow #3 serial 117.jpg
Last edited by gameswat on Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brenner "Ball Past The Arrow"

Post by bryans fan »

!!GOODJOB!!
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Re: Brenner "Ball Past The Arrow"

Post by john t peterson »

You're welcome, Gameswat. I am indeed your generous benefactor. If you put a little more effort into getting this oldie goldies back into shape, I might trust you with more challenging projects. Lord knows I have a few hanging around. !SAINT!

Ever yours,

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Re: Brenner "Ball Past The Arrow"

Post by junior »

Hi, did all ball past the arrow machines have a number scratched into them somewhere which could identify when they were built?
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Re: Brenner "Ball Past The Arrow"

Post by pennymachines »

Mine has Roman numerals XXVIII (easier to do with a screwdriver) on the underside bottom edge of the door. It's a later model so I guess it doesn't follow on from the earlier model numbers. Even so, 28 seems surprisingly low.
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Re: Brenner "Ball Past The Arrow"

Post by moonriver »

The pre-war machine I have oddly has XXXXXXIII on the underside of the door.
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