Mills/Sega/Jennings Lucky Horseshoe/Devil/Chief

[treefrog]

Well, I managed to take out the power to the house , tripped main breakers while using multimeter live I have tested all components and wiring on the mechanism and from the transformer and got the jackpot trip properly working, which it was not, but it has not triggered thehave feature into life. So I must a problem in the control unit and this is where my ability and bravery is coming to an end. Of course it would be easy for me to remove gubbins and put a jackpot back in, but I hoped to keep this one original. We will see.

I did learn something from this thread after 10 years playing with machines - what Paul pointed out earlier, the three small line up holes on the discs.... Had never noticed them, used them or even considered them, but, yes, they are exactly as suggested, line up holes and match reel strip positions on this and a couple of other machines I checked.... Well I will be blown......

The hole you mention on finger two, I do not have for your info.....

[coppinpr]

Well, I managed to take out the power to the house , tripped main breakers while using multimeter live

Told you TF would start poking it with a metal bar.

[thndrr]

The hole you mention on finger two, I do not have for your info.....

So on yours mech, finger two doesn't have any hole? That seems so odd, as it clearly actuates a microswitch. Why bother with the switch if it's always in the same state?

Does your transformer have a rating or any other markings on it? Other than the bulbs, I have no way of determining how many VA I need in the new transformer based on the load. Based on the diagram showing a 2A fuse on the primary side, I believe that means the transformer is in the range of 150VA, which seems high to modern standards for what its operating.

[coppinpr]

I think the fact that Tom doesn't have the hole for the single melon reinforces my idea that the single melon is a possible early shut off for the feature. The hole you point out in your photo is definitely not a factory produced one (on Mills/Sega they are never round). My guess is Tom's machine simply didn't have that option and the feature ran the full time. (Not sure, but he didn't say it had the switch either).

As for the transformer..............beats me!!

[thndrr]

True, I was going based on the wiring diagram, it appears to be the same. I ran a multimeter on the switch as it's currently set up and the circuit is open (no power to the solenoid) unless the Melon is on the payline. That closes the circuit between the solenoid and the control box.

[treefrog]

In terms of transformer I assume it has to be at least 50va or greater based on the 2 amp fuse. You can get multivoltage ones as well....

I do have the micro switch on the second finger as per my diagram. This is open all the time when in normal non running state and only opens when the machine is cycled and the fingers pull back. It does not need to go into any holes to operate as it appears not to work like that. As previously mentioned it must be part of the solenoid operation, but have yet to track the wiring in the control box as this would need to be stripped down...

[brigham]

On mine, which is in a SEGA-style cabinet, the microswitch shares the CHERRY pay-out finger, but it operates every time the mech is cycled, irrespective of wins.
This is correct. The microswitch only has power when the FEATURE is in operation, and it energises the solenoid on the FEATURE pay-out finger, causing the machine to pay out 10. (the top win).
It does this every play until the FEATURE is timed-out by the capacitor-discharge circuit in the control box.
There is supposed to be a device to keep this microswitch from operating when no LUCKY DEVIL is on the first reel (one ORANGE, on mine, but a LEMON on some others). I've never seen one in place, but I'm guessing it was a pad on the payout disc which stopped the movement of the CHERRY finger before it could close the microswitch.

[treefrog]

This is what I confirmed above that this switch open every operation. I only have one fruit without the devil the first item on the strip a orange. I can see a metal lump soldered to the reel disc where the micro switch finger engages. This would prevent the switch opening, although it has worn away slightly and sometimes engages. Seems crude but on this machine explains how this worked. I can see on thndrr’s machine first orange has no symbol and on the disc instead there is a hold and what looked to be screwed in maybe a washer/disc like a bug that probably held back the finger enough to keep open.......thanks for confirming the control unit as I had assumed it was based on energy stored in the capacitors that dermines the length of play. I wonder if you hit the orange the feature stops....
Anyone know if it matters which was round the wires are connected from a transformer as I know this will be 24v AC current..

[thndrr]

This is open all the time when in normal non running state and only opens when the machine is cycled and the fingers pull back.

When you say the switch is open in none run state, do you mean closed then opens when cycled and finger is pushed back (like by the orange bump)? Edit: to clarify, using open as circuit is open and interrupted, no power flow through the switch.

How mine sits now, there is no continuity (from the brains) to the solenoid while the machine is sitting or finished a cycle. This doesn't make sense to me as the solenoid is what triggers the jackpot payout, it should always have continuity to the brains (which would be powered during feature) unless no jackpot is to be paid, which with the new info on the orange makes perfect sense, there should be continuity on the wired switch terminals all the time EXCEPT when the fingers is moved further back (by a bump or pad on the reel) on an orange, signifying no payout.

Now, I can actually swivel the microswitch to make it closed while the mechanism is sitting (thus solenoid would have power when jackpot brains are on), and the orange stop would still work (and kill power too it). This makes sense too me. But if yours matches how mine was before with switch not depressed after machine cycle is done, I need to go back to the drawing board ha. The attached pics have the switch how it was, and rotated, flipping it from open to closed while machine is at rest.

[brigham]

The switch is OPEN during rest. It closes every time the payout fingers are released, except in the single case of the 'no-devil' ORANGE, where it is kept open by an additional thickness of metal on the payout disc at that point.
The switch is wired in series with the payout solenoid. When the feature is in play, it causes the solenoid to operate the 'pay ten' vertical lever, and cause a maximum payout. It only receives power when the feature is in operation.
An interesting point about the transformer. On mine, I thought the secondary winding was open-circuit. It showed no continuity on the AVO 'ohms' setting.
BUT, I then realised that the secondary output leads were simply the ends of the winding left long, and sleeved. Of course, the wire was enamel insulated, and, scraping the enamel off showed continuity.

[treefrog]

Why hey got mine working.... I can’t believe it is related, but I had been awaiting some bulbs I ordered as only one worked... plugged in the second bulb and the feature is fully working. I thought the lighting was in parallel, not series, so should not have affected it, but it must do in some odd way...

Well, going to service the mechanism, clean and polish the cabinet, but leave all original... Stupid thing is, if I had put a jackpot in, it would probably be worth more as it is only odd nostalgic people who could appreciate....like me.

Might do a video when done.

[coppinpr]

Nice one Tom, glad you're leaving it as "Lucky Devil".

[brigham]

How many 'goes' can you get, during the feature?

[thndrr]

The switch is OPEN during rest. It closes every time the payout fingers are released, except in the single case of the 'no-devil' ORANGE, where it is kept open by an additional thickness of metal on the payout disc at that point.
The switch is wired in series with the payout solenoid. When the feature is in play, it causes the solenoid to operate the 'pay ten' vertical lever, and cause a maximum payout. It only receives power when the feature is in operation.
An interesting point about the transformer. On mine, I thought the secondary winding was open-circuit. It showed no continuity on the AVO 'ohms' setting.
BUT, I then realised that the secondary output leads were simply the ends of the winding left long, and sleeved. Of course, the wire was enamel insulated, and, scraping the enamel off showed continuity.

Thanks, that makes more sense. I guess I am not understanding the cycle fully. One thing that still isnt clear, the solenoid activated finger, when pushed all the way in, comes nowhere close to operating the lower payout fingers.

I was checking voltage at the wires at the top of the transformer, maybe thats my problem as well. I will check it at the termination block. It would be nice if it worked, I could just buy step up converter and leave machine internals original.

[widget2k4]

On the Lucky Horseshoe, which is basically the same. you got about 4 to 5 pulls before the timer ran out.
Maybe someone has bent the vertical finger to stop it from paying out on a win. It should contact them when fully pulled in and allow them to pay out the set amount.

[treefrog]

I have just finished a service, so I will test the feature on the minimum and maximum levels to see how it lasts. Although I loved the Horseshoe version, it was far more complex than these variants and I suspect it was not made by the same company. I made the same mistake testing the transformer and scraped off the enamel coating on the wires to test positive.
The 10 coin pay finger from the solenoid should trigger the first three slides. In fact no finger triggers more. The bar and melons are chopped and only trip the top lower finger which engages the microswitch.

I wish slot machine manufacturers of the period put all the key electrics inside boxes like Instones have. It reminds of that Allwin flasher Cyclone that had everything sealed in a box, as such protected from crap and damage.....

[treefrog]

OK,

Set to the high setting I got 12 jackpots.....and the lowest setting 2.....have now set somewhere in the middle to get 6 wins for the video

You get a nice or worrying buzzing noise as the payout gubbins coil get to the end of their feature just before last payout....I guess activating the relay...



Not sure how you embed YouTube videos in posts.*

* Provided you don't put URL tags around the video address it embeds automatically. Site Admin.

[thndrr]

It's alive! That's fantastic!

Here is what I am seeing and isnt making sense. Here is a video of my mech cycling. Note the switch is never touched, mechanism cycled or resting. Would you mind sending me a video of your machine in the same cycle? With how mine is setup, the only way that switch is being pressed, is that finger entering a hole on the reel.



I can confirm you all are cooking with fire when it comes to the transformer. I get 12 volts out of it when measured at the block. Which is expected on US voltage. I am going to buy a step up converter.

[treefrog]

See below video. I think the bar on my finger is more flush, so you have three choices:
1. Bend the bar so it does hit the relay switch.
2. Bend the finger.
3. You may be able to adjust the mount for the microswitch which has a single screw. I checked mine and there is some movement.

Yes, sounds like you need a voltage change to 240 or a multi voltage transformer.

[thndrr]

It's alive! I have it running on 220v, all issues resolved with the exception of the 'Lucky Devil' pay finger being off.

Rotating the mount for the solenoid microswitch with the fingers at rest did the trick. Solenoid has power and works properly when feature is enabled. Feature turns on from the jackpot pay finger, no issues. I am going to commence breaking the mechanism down to clean it after I adjust the feature pay finger.

Adjusting the knob on the control box, I timed the feature length at 11.25 seconds on one end to a whooping 110 seconds on the other.

On another note, I can't seem to find any shops that have the reel strips with the 'Devil' symbol.