Jennings Governor... Price?

[toibs]

Hi all,

Haven't been here for a while... good to see all the usual suspects still here. I will make more of an effort to visit more frequently and contribute more as long as life allows me to.

After some advice... have been offered a Jennings, and hoping to go visit tomorrow, however after a steer on pricing as these seem to be all over the place... How much would YOU expect to pay for this please??

Chroming seems to be the issue really... I'm not sure on functionality until I get to play...

Also, what is there to check and look for on these please?

Edit : Search shows the following... Check doors and bonnet, light functionality, mech smooth, does jackpot work, wood condition, original locks/keys?

Still interested to hear thoughts on what you would pay for it though.

Many thanks to all, and a Happy New Year
Cheers
Paul

[badpenny]

There's at least one on old 6d coming up in The March Coventry Auction.

BP

[toibs]

Thanks BP Seems like this one is on new 5p, so I bet there’s been next to no modification to it... which is a good thing...

Any clues/pointers??

Cheers
Paul

[radiochrissie]

This is the old chestnut isn’t it? To me the condition is everything; poor chrome on these is expensive to rectify. So let’s say £500 to £600.
In fantastic condition with oak sides you could easily pay £1200.
But it is down to what YOU are willing to pay. These machines are readily fixable, so long as it is complete, plenty of people on here can do this and advice is always available.
Good luck

[coppinpr]

The problem is with the chrome on these - it's notorious for being bad. General view is the base metal they used was poor and that led to a poor life span for the chrome.
All the points you mention must be taken into account and using Radio's guide lines find a price between his £600 and £1200, although from what we can see you might condense the bracket to £650-£850 (but bear in mind we can't see inside).

The top glass and award card are of course UK conversion replacements but they don't look bad. It's, as usual, on two plays for 5p, so unless the conversion was done correctly (not usual), it will have had the escalator tampered with, so check the coins move along correctly every time. Most likely, every other sprocket has been removed, which can mean the coins don't move on correctly unless the escalator is kept clean... Looks like the BARS in any position has been changed and the award card lists in amounts (50p) rather than number of coins (10), but nothing drastic on show externally. As is often said on the forum it's worth exactly what you want to pay which equals how much you want it, no more no less
For me... today... from what I can see... no more than £700 but then I've already got two. No room to put it and my wife would say "why have we got another one of those?"

[toibs]

Many thanks coppinpr, radiochrissie, bp for the info/advice... Difficult, I know, based upon the scant information.
It seems to take new 5p coins, so must be a ‘fairly recent’ conversion as the new 5p has only been out for 29 years...

There’s must be a video somewhere of a smooth mech - will take a look and see but thanks again!! Will report back!

Cheers
Paul

[treefrog]

Not sure what 5p you are talking about, but the jackpot is full of old shillings, same as escalator, unless this is not the same machine......

Testing play, pay and smooth action is the only advice as to operation, but I wouldn’t touch a Jennings with poor chrome. I had them in the past and got rid of them. I also prefer original chrome, not redone jobs, as they never look the same. Good honest marks on chrome is fine like the coin drop pitting below the coin entry. I would wait for a better one in my opinion. I also reckon this is one of the British revamps after decimalisation with the 5p conversion and probably a replacement ply cabinet covered in Formica...

Look in Arena and Elephant House site for prices - crazy in last few years.

[toibs]

Not sure what 5p you are talking about, but the jackpot is full of old shillings, same as escalator, unless this is not the same machine......

You know... you're right... I had looked fairly closely and thought it was on the newer smaller 5p - Hadn't seen that in fact it's the older 5p in use

It's that age old debate... Stick with one with chrome in "reasonable" condition for half the price of a better looking one.. horses for courses... Especially when as you say prices are crazy on these..

Thanks Treefrog - definitely a pause for thought there.

[pennymachines]

But as it's on the original (pre-1990) 5p the coin gear has not been altered and is fine for the Shilling.

[badpenny]

I keep reading that prices are crazy on these.

For the sake of perspective, a rough one (even with the jackpot hacked off) would have commanded £500 in the mid 90s and a good example was £1K or even £1250.

In fact I'd stick my knees out and say I'm hard stretched to identify another machine that has dropped in value.

BP

[pennymachines]

It's true, the value of a Jennings Governor has depreciated considerably in real terms since I started collecting. You could buy one for £750 back in 1991 and they were around that price for years, with the occasional £1000+ made at auction. Of course, in the '90s you could also find them for £50, if you did the hunting yourself. A couple of years ago there seemed to be a glut of them on the market which must have kept prices down.

Overall I feel that vintage amusement machines sale prices are at a new high but, as others have commented, some of the early wall machines have also depreciated in real terms.

[oxford allwin fan]

Ah, I know of a similar one; the late owner's wife thinks it's worth "thousands". 6p play: all chrome: not pristine... hmmmm... I offered £1000 via a contact; no reply!!

[coppinpr]

You do know there will be at least two at the Coventry auction in March? Why not at least wait and see what you can get one of those for? I'm sure you will be there, the bacon butties are to die for (or is that die from ) and you have to pay a £2000 fine if you don't attend.

[cheeky]

As Mazak is such a problem to rechrome, has anyone made any ‘new’ castings for Jennings machines or would that be too costly? I’m sure I saw copies were made a few years back.

[badpenny]

As Mazak is such a problem to rechrome, has anyone made any ‘new’ castings for Jennings machines or would that be too costly? I’m sure I saw copies were made a few years back.

Jennings' castings Mazak? .... I don't think so.
Aluminium surely, maybe not good quality, but the weight alone rules out pot metal.

Also the reason the chrome plating is carp is more down to the way the yanks chrome, back street platers over here also.
American chroming was decent after WW2rd and up through the 50s. Then it went down hill, ask any Harley or Indian owner. Over here once H&S started closing down small chrome shops, it became rubbish as well. It became common practice to cut down on how many times you pass it through and what prep you do first.
Rolls Royce have always done their own in house and their work is durable 100 years later.
The metal work is cleaned and polished before acid cleaned and neutralised.
The bare metal is dull nickel plated, polished and bright nickel plated, then polished and brass plated before more polishing and finally chrome plating. The final stage repeated as many as 5 times.
When I was Training Manager for BR in Crewe I had an agreement with RR Training Department, our apprentices and theirs worked together on projects between the Royal Train based at Wolverton and RR Carriage works. Their standards were higher than ours, obviously. But even ours went through polishing and nickel/brass stages before three coats of chrome.
I once sent Jennings castings to a company in Nottingham 30 years ago, they quoted me £85 and after a month they admitted defeat blaming the quality of aluminium used in manufacture. I took the same castings to a platers in Derby, they told me the cowboys had poorly polished my castings and tried to plate chrome directly without any other base plating. They charged me £30 to remove the mess, and then about £200 to do it properly. I sold it 5 years later for about £1200. He still has it, and after 25 years it is still immaculate.

I'm no expert at the witchcraft involved but it's like everything in the world, pay peanuts and you'll be dealing with monkeys.

BP

[cheeky]

Thought provoking BadPenny. I always thought the castings were aluminium but several posts refer it to being mazak.

I am not worldly wise in such matters but your adventures in chroming seem to be similar to many others. I had no idea of your previous experience with BR.

I did have the name of the company that Bentley use. They outsourced some of the smaller components but I’ve deleted their details. Very annoyed with myself but they were brilliant.

I want to buy a beaten up old Jennings and find someone who can actually do a first-class job. I hear that even those stateside are struggling to find such a person.

[toibs]

Any recommendations from the experts above on where to go to get a decent re-plate nowadays?
Mine is starting to flake on the top, so needs re-plating before I end up with chrome in my fingers...

[badpenny]

Finding a good plater is not straight forward.
The ones involved in car and motorbike restoration tend to know what they're doing and their reputations are hard earned (advertising in glossy vintage car magazines ain't cheap)
Be blunt when talking to them, ask them if they want the job. Some of them are geared up for long thin straight items like bumpers/wheel spokes/rims/door handles etc. They view curves and indentations as timely and difficult to get into. It's not that they can't get in there or it's tricky to plate it's more the attention and time involved. They don't want to tell you that, so they try to put you off in other ways, price is one. When it's fiddly often they can't give it to the junior and they don't want to do it themselves. As one once said to me "Look at the grooves in those columns and the concave casting above the pay out. I can't give that to the lad, his mind would wander and he'd polish it all off again trying to get in there."

Plain talking can save time and money. It's a bit like choosing the place you go for your MOT.

BP