Advice and help

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yooser27
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Advice and help

Post by yooser27 »

Hello,
I'm new to mechanical one arm bandits and have always wondered how they worked?
I have a couple of old Japanese machines, one is a Pachinko which is fully mechanical and about 60 years old and the other is a sightly newer Pashislo which is electronic in operation, they're now both fully working, the grandchildren love them!
I now have just the mechanics of a Sega? and Bell-fruit machines, which I intend to maybe build a wooden cabinet on the same style as the one I built for my Pachinko machine. There are a number of items I haven't much of a clue what is missing and what all the parts actually do!
I'll photograph the machines and parts and hope to find out more about them and whether I could get the missing parts,such as the pull handle assembly etc etc.
Regards from Neale.
yooser27
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Re: advice and help

Post by yooser27 »

As promised a few photos of the Sega and Bell fruit mechanisms.
I hope they come out O.K.
Regards from Neale.
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Bell Fruit  02.jpg
Bell Fruit  01.jpg
Sega 03.jpg
Sega  02.jpg
Sega 01.jpg
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coppinpr
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Re: advice and help

Post by coppinpr »

So what do you need to know? :cool:

Getting the handle assembly is not as easy as you might think. The handle does not attach directly to the mech but simply presses down on the mech side of things. The problem is the handle assembly is attached to a damper pump that lives under the mech - not essential, but without it the handle jumps back up with a fast slam.

The mech with the goose neck style coin entry is easier to build a case for and contains all the coin entry parts, but the other one would need a coin entry to deliver the coin to the mech. This would normally run through an escalator or drop down slide - again not strictly essential, although some sort of coin detection device is.

Would like to see a closer photo of the bell fruit(?) mech (front, low, right) to see what is missing there.
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brigham
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Re: advice and help

Post by brigham »

It would be easier to obtain a cabinet for the Sega mech... everyone has at least one spare!
yooser27
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Re: Advice and help

Post by yooser27 »

Hello,
Thanks for the replies. I've taken some photos of the Bell Fruit and a couple of photos of the Sega coin chute? I hope these are of some use to help me find just what is missing!
The Sega works, in that the reels spin and stop in sequence left to right and sometimes it pays out, but it works without having to put a coin in.
The Bell Fruit only works when it feels like it; the lever jams and I don't want to rush in like a bull in a china shop and ruin the mechanism.
I'll try to find a case for the Sega as suggested when I know the mechanism is complete and working correctly, with your help, I hope!
Thanks in advance from Neale.
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Sega chute 02.jpg
Sega chute 01.jpg
Bell Fruit  005.jpg
Bell Fruit  004.jpg
Bell Fruit  003.jpg
Bell Fruit  002.jpg
Bell Fruit  001.jpg
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coppinpr
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Re: Advice and help

Post by coppinpr »

The parts on the Sega that you are missing (as far as the coin drop are concerned) go above the coin chute you have. Look at the Bell Fruit as an example. When you put a coin in the Bell Fruit, it falls part way then stops, held in place for the moment by a swing pin or similar. Then when you pull the handle a pin moves forward (with no coin in the way the pin carries on through and the machine will not play). If there is a coin blocking the way, the pin is held back and the mech cycles a game. The Sega needs a system to do this. The machine can be converted to run exactly as the Bell Fruit does, but in its natural habitat it would use a different system. The coin falls into an escalator that advances from left to right, moving the coin across the front of the machine until it falls into the chute you already have. As it advances, it passes a pin much like the Bell Fruit, which follows the procedure allowing the machine to cycle.

Two things are key at this point to know how to proceed.
1. what coin is the Sega running on? If it's an old penny, the original type escalator method is pretty much out, and a direct system like the Bell Fruit or a simple "roll down" escalator would be needed. If it's a small coin, like a 6d, then an original escalator will work, but they can be expensive. A roll down is easy to find and not expensive.
2. Any escalator system is part of the case, not the mech (as in the Bell Fruit). Finding a case may or may not include the escalator and the handle mech, but would definitely be the best way to go.
yooser27
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Re: Advice and help

Post by yooser27 »

Thanks for all of your help. I've checked the Bell Fruit and the Sega and they both seem to operate on the new penny.
I think the use of a roll down as suggested seems to be the way forward as it's cheaper and easier which appeals to me!
I've now just about a very basic idea of the operation of these machines, which are very clever and must have been all hand built.
I've started my search for a cabinet and handle etc.
I've attached some more photos to pinpoint some items, which would have taken me a thousands words to describe!
Thanks again for all of your help, regards from Neale.
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Sega 04.jpg
Sega 03.jpg
Sega 02.jpg
Sega 01.jpg
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coppinpr
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Re: Advice and help

Post by coppinpr »

Photo 1 with the tubes removed shows that the mech was perhaps converted to take a direct drop coin without an escalator (much like the Bell Fruit). Can we have a closer photo of the top area of the coin drop?
Photo 2 is a bit confusing because the photo is not the right way up. Are you saying this spring is not attached?
Photo 3 shows part of the system that moves forward to check for a coin. Does this move when you pull the handle?
Photo 4 shows the payout discs. The fingers on the right slam forward at the end of the cycle. If they find a hole deep enough in the payout discs (1 disc for a cherry pay, 3 discs for a bell pay for example) they release the payout slides and dispense the coins. A word of warning, oil the mech very lightly with sewing machine oil but never get any oil on any part that comes in contact with a coin. As it stands now with the chutes off it's a good time to remove and clean the payout slides (bottom right photo 1), but remember the correct order and no oil on those.
Might be 1p or could be 6d - check this.
yooser27
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Re: Advice and help

Post by yooser27 »

Hello, Thanks yet again for more of your kind help, I've taken some more photos of which I've coloured in the levers which will hopefully help.
The original photo 2 was the wrong one I posted! It should have been photo C. On original photo 3 the unconnected lever doesn't move when I pull the handle. I've attached photo D, which I hope helps.

I now mostly understand the purpose of the payout discs and the fingers, which thanks to your explanation really does make sense.
I've checked the mechanisms and they both will take a new penny and sixpence. I found some lurking in the mechanisms.
I'll take out the payout slides to give them a good clean as suggested, but will do this on Sunday as we have the grandchildren tomorrow.
Thanks again from Neale.
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Photo F.jpg
Photo E.jpg
Photo D.jpg
Photo C.jpg
Photo B.jpg
Photo A.jpg
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coppinpr
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Re: Advice and help

Post by coppinpr »

I'll just deal with photos A and B for now as I'm not sure you grasp the payouts fully at all points yet.

When you pull the handle on any bandit there are two parts to its cycle: first it winds up the mech onto springs then, when the handle passes over the end of the now loaded bar depressed by the handle, it unwinds with the clock situated deep in the left side slowing down the unwind to allow the game to play.

The wind up does many things at once but as far as the potential payouts are concerned it pulls all the vertical fingers (the green one you highlighted and its mates on either side) back and clear of the payout discs so they can rotate when the machine unwinds (a bar at the rear drops into place to stop the fingers falling forward till the reels have come to a stop). At the same time the payout slides are pushed forward until the horizontal fingers to their right drop across behind the slides ready to stop any non paying slides from moving to a pay position, one to each slide. These horizontal fingers will not allow the slides to return unless the vertical fingers (like your green one) tell them there is a winner to pay.

Each vertical finger handles a particular payout, usually with the lowest pay (cherry) to the right and the highest (jackpot) to the left. Let's say the game ends on three oranges: the finger allotted the three orange payout slams forward when the reels have stopped and goes through all three payout discs; this moves the vertical finger so far forward its lower end kicks the horizontal finger out of its latch position in all the slides needed to pay the correct amount, then those slides slam backwards dropping the coins into the payout cup. On the other hand, let's say the reels stop on plum, orange, orange. If this happens, the vertical finger will not find its way through all three discs and no winner is paid. Simples. !PUZZLED!
yooser27
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Re: Advice and help

Post by yooser27 »

Hello,
Thank you very much for your time and help with my problems. I have spent quite a long time operating the machine watching each part move and how it interacts with other levers.
There are a number of parts which appear to be not used and for some reason are not connected! I know you mentioned that perhaps in the dim and distant past it had been modified.
I have attached a photo to show the payout levers which appear to have been modified. There really is so much to learn, it reminded me of when I first got a Japanese Pachinko mechanical machine working.
All the best from Neale.
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Sega vertical payout fingers.jpg
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coppinpr
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Re: Advice and help

Post by coppinpr »

You say parts don't seem to be used, so we need to know which parts. The photo you show may or may not show modified parts. What it MIGHT show is that some horizontal fingers are missing.
Bottom line is the machine only does three things, accept a coin correctly, cycle a game and pay out on a winner.
So what does it do or not do?

1. We are pretty sure it will not accept a coin correctly because part of the coin accepter is missing and this may mean it's been modified to free play and not require a coin. Is this the case? Will it simply run when you pull the handle? If so, then we can leave that side alone till the rest is working correctly.
2. Does the machine cycle correctly when the handle is pulled? Do all three reels spin and settle one after another with a sharp stop?
3. Does the machine pay any winners at all on a winning line?

Once we know the answers to these questions we can move to the individual problems.
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badpenny
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Re: Advice and help

Post by badpenny »

coppinpr wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:10 am You say parts don't seem to be used, so we need to know which parts. The photo you show may or may not show modified parts. What it MIGHT show is that some horizontal fingers are missing.
I disagree - it also shows that the vertical fingers governing the higher payouts have been shortened.

BP :cool:
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coppinpr
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Re: Advice and help

Post by coppinpr »

You're right of course, I didn't take note of the two to the left. I was thinking more about if some horizontal fingers had been removed. Now BP has taken an interest things will move quicker. !THUMBS!
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badpenny
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Re: Advice and help

Post by badpenny »

You must be joking Paul!
All I can speed up is concern and desperation amongst those within a diameter of 50 feet.
Regardless of where I'm standing.

BP '!'
yooser27
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Re: Advice and help

Post by yooser27 »

Hello, I have been checking the items as you've suggested:
Item 1, Yes, when the handle is pulled the reels spin without needing a coin to be used.
Item 2, Yes, the reels spin and stop sharply from the left to the right.
Item 3, Yes, on 3 bars the bottom 2 horizontal levers moved out and paid 2p.
For 3 plums, the left-hand vertical lever moved inwards but the horizontal lever didn't move, no payout.
For left and middle cherries the right-hand vertical lever moved inwards and the bottom horizontal levers moved out with 2p paid.

The attached photo of the reels shows that on the left-hand reel a 'patch' of a lemon has been added and the two other reels have had patches of oranges added.

The other photo shows the green shaded lever which when pushed in gives a 6p payout as it pushes out all the horizontal levers, but isn't connected to anything!
Thanks again,
Regards from Neale.
Attachments
Photo 02.jpg
Sega reels 01.jpg
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radiochrissie
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Re: Advice and help

Post by radiochrissie »

The Sega has been butchered by someone. You're trying to understand its workings but parts are missing, including payout slides and levers modified. I am not far from you in Crosby; I could show you a (complete) working mech and explain its operation. I think it’s far easier to understand the operation when you see a working mech.
yooser27
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Re: Advice and help

Post by yooser27 »

Hello,
Thank you for your kind offer. I'd like to accept your offer of seeing a correct mechanism working, as you say mine has been butchered. I did wonder why the levers had been modified quite crudely and also it appeared that some of the horizontal sides were missing etc. I assume it was done by the arcade or fairground people so it didn't pay out the higher payouts!
It may well be (as suggested) cheaper and easier to buy a complete bandit, but firstly my main aim is to understand how they work and then go by the advice I have received on this excellent site.
Regards from Neale.
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radiochrissie
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Re: Advice and help

Post by radiochrissie »

Pm sent to you Neale.
yooser27
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Re: Advice and help

Post by yooser27 »

Hello radiochrissie,
I can't find your PM to me, unless I'm looking in the wrong place! I've tried to send one to you.
Regards from Neale.
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