Ahrens Jolly Fireman Racer identified

[arrgee]

Saw this Ahrens Jolly Fireman recently, rather nice example. Pity about the awful plastic tub at the bottom to catch the coin return, it has a BMCo style pinned coin return and I guess it would have originally taken a penny so the current 20p would just fly off over the floor without the tub

[JC]

Very nice Arrgee - I'm guessing it's at Swindon? - I recognise the decorative railings.
It's not original though - it's one of two built a few years ago. As far as I can recall, it was always intended to operate on 20p, so there's no excuse really for the inappropriate coin return - that Tupperware thing, crudely screwed on, is frankly unbelievable .

[watlingman]

There is also one of these at Portsmouth Naval Docks, in the cafe with a whole lot more of interesting machines!

[pennymachines]

And here's a picture of the one at Milestones, posted by JC.
I didn't know any of these had been reproduced.

[arrgee]

I'm guessing it's at Swindon

That's right Jerry. On display at the STEAM museum.

It's not original though - it's one of two built a few years ago

So that would explain why it does not have the typical Ahrens claw feet. Very good repro though. Is the Ahrens oval name plate also repro?
I see that the Ahrens machine at Milestones has a traditional half round payout cup.

[JC]

Isthe Ahrens oval name plate also repro?

I'd guess so. Notice the two screws either side of the coin entry are in the wrong place - one of which is a brass slotted round-head and the other a counter-sunk pozi

Just for clarity - the machine at Milestones is an original Ahrens, whilst I suspect the one at Portsmouth, mentioned by Watlingman, is the sister repro machine to the machine at Swindon.

[tim575]

Topic moved & merged - Site Admin.

Can anyone here identify the maker and any additional information on this game believed to be an English arcade from the 20's? Like so many English 2-player racers, 2-pennies go in and 1 is returned to the winner.
Here are the pics inside and out.

Front.jpg (71.06 KiB) Viewed 1982 times

Model.jpg (150.8 KiB) Viewed 1982 times

Mech.jpg (74.64 KiB) Viewed 1982 times

InsideBack.jpg (79.41 KiB) Viewed 1982 times

[john t peterson]

Goodness, Tim, How do you keep coming up with these treasures?

J Peterson
Color me green, USA

[treefrog]

Ahrens surely. Looks like tge coin entry has been changed and the knob for the coin return is missing. The Jolly Fireman Racer.

[tim575]

This one had me guessing as I could not find reference to ladder climbing fireman type game, but it did remind me of Ahrens working models so this answers it. I figured PM forum would be the one place to find out. It is missing the winner coin return mechanics, which now explains the filled hole in the front. Those were often removed from winner pay back machines imported to the US to make them legal for public use. I have had to reverse that on some RW games where the mech. was at least still present enough to reverse modify and return to large penny play. It appears to be missing illumination for behind the windows. From the looks of the mech, condition, and the feet, I believe this one is an original Ahrens and not a repro, and this exact one has history in the US at least back to 2013.

So for those wondering where I saw it, they have obviously have not been keeping close enough tabs on Morphy Auctions (another rainy day project for me this weekend). Unfortunately like much that ends up in that auction, it has been modified from original, and unclear how easily that could be fixed. Auction descriptions of it are incomplete, just noting it is modified and from the 1920s, as English Climbing Firemen. No attribution to the maker. Is it referenced in any arcade books?

This particular one has shown up twice at auction in the US.
Morphy (Jamesdjulia) lot 3286 6/21/2013 - fierce bidding and it didn't go cheap;
Morphy lot 3244 4/22/2023 - I expect it will again draw fierce bidding. (Note, Morphy description is a word for word copy of the 2013 auction listing).

BTW, in this Morphy April auction there are many arcade games where the exact same one was in auctions from 2013 to 2018, so I suspect another collector has unfortunately retired (from the hobby or from life). I also see multiple lots that showed sold below minimum in last Nov. auction, so those would have been reserve not met but displayed as sold.

[pennymachines]

Is it referenced in any arcade books?

Automatic Pleasures - picture p141, dated 1927, Arcades & Slot Machines - ref. p41: dated 1921. (Possibly others).

[tim575]

So, as John already knows from FB posts, the Fireman racer from last weekend Morphy Auction will soon be on the way to my place. I am sure I will have more questions once I can inspect it closely and get detailed pics of the mech., I know it is missing one of the lamp sockets to illuminate behind the windows, but I don't know how much is missing or left of the winner coin return mechanism, the coin return cup is still there at the bottom, but the knob for the return is gone and the hole for it filled in.

[treefrog]

Well done, lovely machine looking forward to seeing it in your arcade

[tim575]

OK, so shipping delivery is about 3 weeks out. Meanwhile, can anyone provide additional information on mechanics and marquee for these? Does any member have contact with who created the 2 reproductions, any chance of getting some mech. pics, parts, part source, or Marquee scan? Anyone have photos of the 2nd coin return mechanism around the return knob? I will need to re-create some of that mechanism as well as a repro marquee, there are good pics so if needed I maybe able to have an artist create the marquee if no high res. scans exist. So far what I have (mostly from this forum), is maybe 5 original machines exist and 2 repro. I only account for 2 original, anyone else have one or have seen one on display besides the Milestones and Morphy ones? I know one was seen at Museum Mechanique on the pier in San Francisco by John, but I don't have that photo or know if it is still there, I will try to check on that.
Repro at Swindon STEAM museum:

Ahrens-Jolly-Fireman-Repro-1of2-Swindon-STEAM-museuma.jpg (343.17 KiB) Viewed 1487 times

Repro at Porsmouth Navel Dockyard - Possibly in Clive Baker's collection?

PortsmouthNavalDockyard-2019-repro 2of2.jpeg (45.79 KiB) Viewed 1690 times

Original at Milestones

Milestones Ahrens Piledriver and Jolly Fireman racer-original.jpg (43.18 KiB) Viewed 1690 times

Original from last weekends Morphy auction

SecretTownArcade-original.jpg (71.06 KiB) Viewed 1690 times

The only photo of mech. is from that auction, resolution is poor but just enough to see that some of the 2nd coin mech is present, at least the chute for it, and anything connected to the missing knob is gone.

Auction-mech.jpg (74.64 KiB) Viewed 1690 times

[tim575]

A third original machine popped up in my search for known examples, a price check service notes it as being in the Sotheby's Jan 2009 auction with 'no sell', although I can't find it on Sotheby's past auction database, either because of the no sell or the price check service info was incorrect. No Marquee on it and the 2nd coin return 'knob' appears to be a lever, and coin return is a bit different than the others. On the Colcon site I don't see any detail how they arrived at about 5 known for rarity, and the vintage photo they have of one seems to have coin entry and return also in different location, and different type of cranks than the others. I don't know if variation like that during production was common for Ahrens or if it is due to modifications during later restorations and repairs. I also have an inquiry out to Dan at the S.F.
Musée Mécanique to confirm if he has or had one as well.

Sotherbys01232009AuctionLot312-original.jpg (55.33 KiB) Viewed 1646 times

[gameswat]

Hey Tim, there is this example in the USA that came from the John Gresham collection.

[jingle]

I have one of these too
So add that to list

[jingle]

Here’s some old pics off the phone

[arrgee]

And a Pile-Driver I spy nuzzling up against it

[tim575]

Jingle, thank you. All the pics really help trying to figure out how it should look and be configured. Slight variations in the marquee text on some. It looks from your pics like maybe yours also had the 2nd coin return knob removed? I will need to recreate the marquee for mine as well as see if I can restore the 2nd coin return and coin type as it has likely been modified from original.