Reels Don't Always Spin Fast! Need Help Again!!!

[markymark]

Hi
Yes another one of those boring questions again... I know I posted a similar one about 2 years ago but even with the knowledge of all the members here, no one really gave an answer to cure the problem!
Anyway, hope someone can help. A regular Sega/Mills type mechanics. When the handle is pulled the whole thing works perfect, the reels spin rapidly. However, approx. every 4th or 5th spin the reels don't have that "kick" to them, the far left reel sometimes hardley rotates!!!
The mechanics have been stripped and cleaned and lubricated. Whats puzzling me is if there was a fault, weak spring etc.. then surely the thing would perform bad everytime, but as it can work perfect most of the time its beginning to baffle my little brain cells!

It's almost like sometimes the Kicker doesn't kick the reels round with any power??

Any help or suggestions you can throw this way would be great.

Thanks.

[badpenny]

I suggest that the reels aren't always staying in line when the kicker travels under them to get to the back. They are kept in place by the arrowed piece in the photo. If the spring on it isn't strong enough to keep the reels in line then what you describe can happen.

[steinslots]

An excellent photo and explanation from Badpenny by the way!
Can I just add:
The reason for the apparent randomness of the spin times is because Sega machines were sometimes fitted with a "randomiser". This consists of an offset cam having several flats around it, which rotates slightly on each mechanism operation and thus alters the clocks spring travel and consequently adding a variable time each spin.

[markymark]

Thanks for both pieces of advice. I looked today at the mechanics... I know you all been there before... pull the mechanics out, point a bright spotlight, grad the longest screw driver you can find, and pull the mechanism, and watch it work.. aagain and again and again!!!! I must have played that machine 100 times or more tonight watching every lever, spring and moving part!!!
I think I may have solved.. I tightened the spring that is fitted on the kicker arm.. but couldn't fully test as the wife insisted I come in from the workshop (well, garage to be exact!!)...
But will try the spring tightening also as recommended to keep the reels held in place. thanks again for hints and tips, anymore much appreciated!

Thx

Mark

[malcymal]

Wives always have that moment to spoil your fun, 8 hours working on the bandit whilst the housework is piling up is reasonable isnt it? Come on wives, give us addicts a break

[steinslots]

and dont forget the brakes! That's the springy arm on each reel held in place with 2 wingnuts.
You could loosen these wingnuts slightly and tweak the pressure on each screw to adjust each reel so each comes to a soft stop, you can see one of them in the photo (bot right).
(by the way, nice Sega mech Dave, is it for sale?).

[steinslots]

I'm having the same problem at home: On Sunday I was busy de-greasing this old Mills mech in the kitchen sink when my adoring wife pushed all of the payslides off the draining board with a tray of roast chicken, after I'd carefully laid them all out in sequence. Several screws fell down into the sink.

I said "Can't you do that outside love?" Then she said "Do you wanna eat this chicken or wear it?"

[badpenny]

An excellent photo and explanation from Badpenny by the way!
Can I just add:
The reason for the apparent randomness of the spin times is because Sega machines were sometimes fitted with a "randomiser". This consists of an offset cam having several flats around it, which rotates slightly on each mechanism operation and thus alters the clocks spring travel and consequently adding a variable time each spin.

Well I always had doubts that you'd manage to quit the habit Carl, so am not surprised that you're back (by the way I don't know which Dave you think I am but it's Jeremy here)
The bandit is pictured below, and when I paid nearly £500 for it about nine years ago I was told that it had been a salesmen's model as it has the lot fitted including Gold Award and Sega tokens, oak sides and everything appears to be nickel plated. So no it's not for sale ..... except they do say everything has its price.
Anyway you had the last superb machine I owned off me when you wangled my immaculate Bryans Elevenses from me, and that's still painful!

[steinslots]

It's........so..........so..........beautiful.
Any hows it going chap?
I still have that very Bryans, still in its splendid glory. What do you mean by wrangled? you had put a price ticket on it!
I still miss my ol' Jennings Governor, worked so hard to get it, why did it have to go? Why?
(I thought the Bailiffs might think it looked bling!).

[markymark]

Well.. the story continues...
I loaded the machine back in the case... dropped a few sixpences in and pulled the handle..wow.. all 3 reels spun like greased lightning!!! I tried it again and again and again...perfect.. then just as I was feeling proud (you know what's coming next!!!!), another pull of the handle and the darn reels can't even manage a full rotation...Bah!!! After playing for a while, still it performs well sometimes then it plays poor for a couple of spins. I think every 5 spins, 1 is slow!! I got a feeling I'll take this troublesome spin to the grave... I tried everything...
Please help - is there something I've overlooked? All springs have been checked.. the kicker pulls back, engages payplate cutouts and kicks them round. For the life of me I can't see why there's no "Oomph" in them sometimes!

Any more hints or tips..please!!!

Mark.

[steinslots]

Ill give you a tenner for it! ....................Only joking.

Assuming the clock is completing its travel every time between each play.

Is the kicker arm free to move? It's held to the casting with a large shoulder screw which sometimes ceases up. You may need to remove the kick arm spring to get it off in order to remove or clean the arm shoulder screw. Be warned the spring is held under a lot of tension and its a right b*****d to get back on. Access to the kicker arm is only possible after removing the payout tube.
If thats all ok, I'd be inclined to first check the main operating pawl on the RHS of the mech near to where it engages with the arm. Its an anvil shaped lever held in place with a bolt and nut. Check if this part is held in tightly. It should be adjusted so that when the handle is pulled the mechanism releases just as the reels are clear of the peckers, kickers and reel stoppers.

Can anyone think of anything else? .......Jeremy?

[badpenny]

The pawl on the right hand side is a good suggestion as its fine tuning is critical to the general smooth operation, however if it's out or loose then I'd also expect oodles of other horrors.
I think by now, if everything is checked and appears ok then I'd be coming at this from a different direction. Instead of trying to find out what is going wrong occasionally I'd be trying to replicate the problem every time.
I'd use an old fashioned bottle of Tippex (the marks wipe off metal easily) and mark where things come to rest like the arm on the clock, the kicker etc. I'd also mark the positions of the reels so that when it does misfire you can repeat the play exactly by turning the reels back to the exact starting position and see if it repeats the error. That way you can search the common denominator for wear or a bit missing off an edge.
Questions: -
Does it sound the same when you get a misfire? (apart from the speed of the reels)
Do the brakes and vertical fingers etc. come in at their usual time? Or quicker?

[markymark]

Well... read the most recent posts.. thanks guys. Not sure I understood the terminology used, but... tonight I told the wife she may not see me for a while, I was determined to have another crack at this problem (well I have to, I can't sleep!!!!)

Again, sat and watched closely all moving parts as I pulled mechanism through its wind up mode.
Finally, I noticed the kicker as it pulled back across the pay disc cutouts, that when it engaged on the end of its travel, it dropped fully into the cutouts, which gave it that mighty kick spin on the reels. But it looked as though sometimes it didn't come back enough, as such, didn't fully drop into the cutouts, so almost pushed the reels without getting that kick spin (almost like 2 cogs not engaging correctly!!).
At this point I apologise for my poor description!!!
Anyway, if I could find how to get the kick plate to get pulled back just a fraction more then that may solve the problem... I loosened off on the right hand side a nut and bolt that holds a rod in place, so I could slide it out a little which would cause the kicker to come back further before being released. See the attached picture.
But thanks to all of you who helped solve the trouble.. the reels spin beautifully each and every time.. sorted!!! I'm happy now. Hope this may help others too in the future.

[badpenny]

Well done - that was the little gizmo that Carl was describing...............

[steinslots]

Heres a good tip for next time Mark:
Lay out some old newpaper on the living room floor and you can work on the mechanism spread out on the floor whilst the wife is enjoying Coronation Street or The Bill. Tell her this is your way of spending valuable time with HER whilst also persuing your hobby!

It worked for me until I got grease all over the carpet.

[badpenny]

Carpets!!!! You can afford carpets?

[steinslots]

They came with the house, I don't BUY carpets.