Sourcing & making springs for slot machines

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badpenny
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Re: Sega Mad Money clock spring

Post by badpenny »

After you've formed the shape of the spring, do you then heat it and quench?
sutty
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Re: Sega Mad Money clock spring

Post by sutty »

Thanks, though I'm not so sure about good, but I think it's probably good enough.

It was difficult, because the wire is incredibly stiff, despite the fact that it's 'only' 1.2mm thick, and I don't really have the right tools, such as a lathe. I had to clamp my drill in the vice, trying hard not to over squash the case of the drill, and then turn it by hand. I learned a few things today though, doing the smaller ones I needed, and as a result I think could have done a better job with that one, knowing what I know now, but to do it I would need longer lengths of wire than needed for the spring itself. Well, I was short anyway, as I described above, but there's another reason.

It might seem obvious, but I think the wire needs to be straight. If you leave the natural curve in it, from how it is wrapped for sending it to you, then you can't control how those bends will appear at, and in, the spring, and I think that made it a little higgledy piggledy. So, either work it with your fingers, until it is straight, so the angle, as it comes to the mandrel, won't matter, or, if possible, and I haven't quite worked out how to do this, ensure it is presented to the mandrel, in the direction of the natural curl of the wire. There must be an easy way to do that, and I managed it quite well with the small ones today, just by being careful, and always making sure it was coming to my tensioner the right way round. Actually, it just stayed the right way, all the time, so I was either lucky, or it would do that anyway, once started off right. :!?!:

The thing that caused the most problem though, was that, as it wound onto the mandrel, and became a longer and longer spring, it changed the angle, significantly, from where I had it clamped to the side of the bench, between two pieces of wood, to create adequate and consistent tension, and eventually, it decided to wind back over itself, and screwed it all up. I then had to unwind it, at the end, and then rewind the tension on, having changed that angle, then try to carry on, plus of course, I ran out of wire. :evil: Oh, and the ends are very hard to bend on, without damaging the rest of the spring as you do it. Not sure how to best do that, yet.

Anyway, if I had had say a 3m length, I could have come at it from right across the bench, not 6 inches away, and the angle change would have been insignificant. So, if I attempt to do it again, that's what I'll do.

Today's effort on one of the smaller springs is a very pleasing result to me, but even on this, much thinner wire, the ends are still tricky to bend up. Again, I only had a short lengths of wire to work with, so I couldn't come at it from across the bench, but I kept a really close eye on it, and had more tension on it, so it forced it not to go back on itself, even when it was coming at it 'off' angle.

Smaller-springa.jpg

This is my very Heath Robinson setup. If it were longer, and coming from across the bench, I'm pretty sure I could just have wound it with the drill on slow, rather than by hand. The mandrel for the smaller spring, was a 3.3mm nail, and if I had had a smooth bar, for the bigger mandrel, I'm pretty sure it would have been better again.

Setupa.jpg

Cheers

Sutty
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coppinpr
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Re: Sega Mad Money clock spring

Post by coppinpr »

Tell me? Would this help with bending the ends? Take no notice of the price, I only show this one as an example.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001 ... mainSearch
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brigham
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Re: Sega Mad Money clock spring

Post by brigham »

Would buying a box of assorted springs not be easier?
That's what I do.
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badpenny
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Re: Sega Mad Money clock spring

Post by badpenny »

At the end of my post here I described how I make adjustable spring loops for ends of springs. You may find it of use.

I asked you if you heat treat the finished product?

BP :cool:
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Re: Sega Mad Money clock spring

Post by sutty »

badpenny wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:39 pm After you've formed the shape of the spring, do you then heat it and quench?
No, it isn't needed, they are just springy because of their shape, and because they are wound from spring steel piano wire. I'm guessing, that they go past their elastic limit, only in the direction you are bending them, and retain it in the direction you use them. Not sure that they even lose their springiness, even in the direction you have 'over' bent them, because they still seem damned springy, even in that direction. They unwind a lot, and and get fatter, when you release them, and there is a calculator to tell you how big they will become, or more to the point, what mandrel size you will need for any given ID and wire thickness.

Here is someone with better tools, and more skill than I, but it helped with the basic principles, and with a link to the calculators.


coppinpr wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:36 pm Tell me? Would this help with bending the ends? Take no notice of the price, I only show this one as an example.
I'm not sure to be honest, but maybe so. They seem difficult to even poke your finger nail in between, to get the pliers in, and then as you bend, it starts bending the next coil, so you have to try and pin it down.
brigham wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:50 pm Would buying a box of assorted springs not be easier?
That's what I do.
Quite possibly, and it had crossed my mind, but I thought it unlikely to have a match to the required spring for any given requirement. I did briefly look at some sets, some time ago, and they didn't seem to have what I wanted. I'm sure you're right, and if it works for you, then it must be possible to find the right collection, but it was fun trying, and learning how to do it, of a fashion. The last one I did was much better, so I think I could do the first one well now.

Do you have a link to a set I could consider, that contains an equivalent of the 40 turn clock spring?
badpenny wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:53 pm At the end of my post here I described how I make adjustable spring loops for ends of springs. You may find it of use.
Excellent. Very nice, thank you.
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badpenny
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Re: Sega Mad Money clock spring

Post by badpenny »

sutty wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:03 pm Here is someone with better tools, and more skill than I, but it helped with the basic principles, and with a link to the calculators.

Excellent link, thanks.
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Re: Sega Mad Money clock spring

Post by coppinpr »

I've often wondered, would it be possible to cut these into workable springs or are they not suitable?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3287615 ... mainSearch
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Re: Sourcing & making springs for slot machines

Post by tallstory »

The video is a help (as long as you can bear the endless puns). Also I found the complicated tools he used for feeding the wire quite unnecessary. I used a couple of plastic strips, held by the fingers of my leather gloved hand, worked best. Then you can vary the pressure and the feed angle as needed. Always buy too much piano wire because the first one is usually a 'practice' one.
As others have suggested, a lathe isn't necessary as long as you have a speed controlled electric drill and a vice. The wire is trapped in the drill chuck with the mandrel and my left had controls the drill speed. I found using the drill in reverse made it easier to judge the feeding of the wire.
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Re: Sourcing & making springs for slot machines

Post by sutty »

Managed another one today with which I am happy. Used the gloved hand tension and guide technique, shown above, which worked well, thank you tallstory. Tried a test wind of the much thicker 1.22mm wire, and it was not possible to hold it by hand. It was way too stiff for me, so I guess I must be too weak. Still coming up with a plan for redoing the clock spring, just for fun. I'm happy enough with what I produced, but if I can do better, now I have bought some more 1.22mm wire, then I'll do so.

Newa.jpg

New spring in background, and old in foreground. Old is 4.03mm OD, and new is 4.07mm OD, from 0.014" wire, in both cases. As you can see the old one was rusty, over stretched, and broken, so I'm pretty sure I needed a new one. :!?!: :D
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Re: Sourcing & making springs for slot machines

Post by sutty »

By the way, quick tip, when I wound that longish spring, just above, I wound way more turns than I needed, as many as I could fit on my mandrel, giving myself plenty of turns to mess with, forming the ends, if it went wrong. Only works for one end, as you have to cut it off at the right length anyway, for the other end, so it's not that helpful. Anyway, the tip is this, I'm thinking particularly important on a longish thin spring like this. When I had completed my over wind, filling my mandrel, and cut it off, it unwound so many turns, that it ended up being only two thirds of the length of my mandrel, and had only just enough turns for my planned length.

Came as quite a surprise when I saw it, sitting there on the mandrel, not filling it anymore, and it took me a good few moments to ponder what had gone on. No idea how you calculate how many turns you would lose, for any given spring, but you will lose some, for sure, so wind it a little longer at least, and definitely get more wire than you need, as mentioned above by tallstory, you're bound to screw one or two up.
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Re: Sourcing & making springs for slot machines

Post by sutty »

I managed to improve on my first effort at the clock spring. First versus second below. Still not perfect, but happy enough with it now, and I'm out of wire, so it will now have to do. At least I have a spare, albeit not as good, if anything goes wrong.

Did better with the ends, but still had a hiccup halfway along, where a slight bend in the wire shows up. Oh well, good enough, as I said. For the ends, I used the mandrel, inside the spring, to retain and prevent further coil ends from being able to be bent.

First-vs-Seconda.jpg

Cheers for all the earlier advice contained in this thread.
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Sega Mad Money Restoration

Post by sutty »

Post moved & merged - Site Admin.

I learned something tonight. I decided to read up about springs, made from music wire, and I discovered that it is useful to give your spring a heat soak after forming, to remove stresses from the metal. Apparently, this can improve performance, longevity and prevent distortion of the spring, where high use is expected. The temperature recommended was 450F, which I could do in the oven. It said heat to 450F for half an hour, and then cool very slowly, over the course of about two hours.

I thought I'd give it a go, expecting no visible change in the spring at all, considering that's only about 230 C. To me that barely seems warm, when thinking in terms of steel. I'm surprised it could even tell it was in the oven, but clearly it could, because when I got it out, after the prescribed very slow cooling, it had changed colour to a kind of nice brown colour.

I decided I would try to read further, and I discovered that this is expected, but the thread I found that made that comment did not add an explanation. Go figure, carbon steel music wire turns brown as a result of barely warming it. Maybe some of you know this, or can tell me more, but I was very surprised.

Not that I'm bothered, I should now have a nice stress free spring, that will last longer, it's just a nice brown colour now. :HaHa: I was going to post a picture of it, but with my phone camera it just looks shiny silver still.
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Re: Sourcing & making springs for slot machines

Post by tallstory »

The low temperature stress relief removes the stresses caused by cold working (winding the spring) but it isn't hot enough to anneal the piano wire, which would remove the springiness altogether. I don't bother with this step usually and I don't remember it ever turning brown. Perhaps it was the dripping from the Sunday roast.
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Re: Sourcing & making springs for slot machines

Post by sutty »

lol, yes, that could have been it, quality. :lol:

I hadn't previously bothered about it, on the few that I'd done, because I didn't even know about it, but I thought why not try it, if it relieves the induced stress, which is what I'd recently read, and you've just confirmed. I simply didn't expect it to turn brown, because I didn't read that until after the event. It's otherwise perfect, so why it's turned brown, if that's not your experience, I couldn't say, but it has. It certainly hasn't been overheated, because the oven won't even get hot enough to do that, and in any case it's still just as springy, if not a little more.

The ends didn't go brown, but one of those will be chrome plated, and the other stainless steel. I've managed to get a photo that shows it reasonably well, by putting it on a white background. Prior, it looked like the springs I showed a few posts back, or the same colour as the ends.

Brown.jpg

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Re: Sourcing & making springs for slot machines

Post by sutty »

sutty wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:12 pm Managed another one today with which I am happy. Used the gloved hand tension and guide technique, shown above, which worked well, thank you tallstory. Tried a test wind of the much thicker 1.22mm wire, and it was not possible to hold it by hand. It was way too stiff for me, so I guess I must be too weak. Still coming up with a plan for redoing the clock spring, just for fun. I'm happy enough with what I produced, but if I can do better, now I have bought some more 1.22mm wire, then I'll do so.

Newa.jpg

New spring in background, and old in foreground. Old is 4.03mm OD, and new is 4.07mm OD, from 0.014" wire, in both cases. As you can see the old one was rusty, over stretched, and broken, so I'm pretty sure I needed a new one. :!?!: :D
Quoting myself here, because my earlier photograph was edited, by someone, happens a lot here, perhaps to save space, etc, and it no longer includes the new spring, making the post make no sense at all.

New vs Old.JPG
New vs Old.JPG (20.53 KiB) Viewed 1632 times

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Re: Sourcing & making springs for slot machines

Post by pennymachines »

sutty wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 9:40 pm Quoting myself here, because my earlier photograph was edited, by someone...
Mea culpa. Image showing new and old spring restored to post. Apologies. :woops:
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Re: Sourcing & making springs for slot machines

Post by sutty »

!THUMBS!

Thanks.
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Re: Sourcing & making springs for slot machines

Post by alliofinn »

I need some of these. Any ideas?
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Re: Sourcing & making springs for slot machines

Post by pennymachines »

To describe the spring you're after, you need the diameter of the spring wire (measured with a gauge). To complicate matters, different metals have different tensile properties: https://www.thespringstore.com/standard ... sizes.html

If you don't fancy making your own (using the guidance above) there are a couple of suppliers listed in Archive/Services:
https://www.coilspringsdirect.com/
https://www.flexosprings.com/

If you have a sample, it might be easiest to visit a supplier, spring-in-hand, for a good match.
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