Tobacco Honour Boxes

[pennymachines]

Copied from The original collector - Site Admin.


Perhaps less surprising that someone in England was collecting tobacco vending honour boxes around the same time:

An English antiquarian when told about the discovery of coin operated machines merely interrupted and became so extraordinarily English and said he knew all about it— he would. However, this man really did know something, for he had a collec­tion of tobacco boxes which included some of the kind that were used in the English inns and taverns nearly two hundred years ago. Many of them are quite cute. They are all jars, some fitted with a slot into which a penny was pushed and by giving a hard knock on a small knob near the slot, a lid opened and the “customer” helped himself to a tiny packet of tobacco.

From what was seen of this collec­tion of tobacco jars and pocket baccy boxes, perhaps some people may be soon using up some of their surplus income on similar pots and boxes. They had never seen one of the penny-in-slot kind before, but they have seen a number of pottery ones, some of them not unlike the Toby jugs.

If there are any of the slot-machine kind in the country they would be just the kind of things the early tav­ern keepers would have sent out from England.

New York Sun, 1935.

"A penny inserted in the slot would open the lid into the box where the smoker dipped his pipe. As simple as this was, it was clever enough to permit half-penny pieces to go through the slot without permitting the would-be cheat to get at the tobacco". Automatic Age, 1939.

[bob]

Early in my collecting almost forty years ago, I acquired an Honour Box marked Rich's Patent on the top. Somewhere I read that this was the first coin operated device of any kind to have been patented anywhere. For some years I searched every way possible to find Rich's patent without any luck.

VICTORIA BOWLING CLUB PRESENTED BY ROBT. BODINGTON June 1878
FILL YOUR PIPE AND CLOSE THE BOX

About five years ago I was lucky enough to obtain another very similar Honour Box at a local auction. This Honour Box had belonged to a Melbourne suburban Bowling Club, which is still in existence. Having been presented to the club by the proprietor of a local engineering company it is beautifully engraved including the date 1878 making it certainly the oldest machine in my collection.
Similar to the other one, it is stamped on the top "Rich's Patentee".
I wonder if any reader has managed to locate Rich's patent or has any more information about these coin op machines.

[treefrog]

I have never attempted to search the patent, but wonder if it worked, as a few companies made these in the late 19th century with similar mechanisms, but slightly different styles.

What most of them are missing is the liner. The tobacco container should be lined with a thin wood. I think they were oak. I have had a few and still have one with original liner. I guess this was to help keep the tobacco fresh.

[ddstoys]

Great to see this again Bob. Had never seen anything like it until I visited you.

[pennymachines]

The Honour or Honesty Box is said to have been invented in England in 1610 (The Tobacco Timeline, Gene Borio), *see Nic Costa's research, but to find the patent might entail a paper chase at the British Library:

Before October 1852, details of granted English patents were simply recorded (enrolled) in the Patent Rolls at the end of a long, cumbersome and costly application process. No numbering system was in place.

https://www.bl.uk/help/find-early-british-patents

If Rich's patent was for the invention of the honour box (and not a later improvement), given the early date, likely candidates might be Richard Rich, who served as Speaker of the House of Commons in 1536, and lord chancellor under Edward VI, or his eldest son, Sir Nathaniel Rich, or Nathaniel's cousin, Robert Rich, 2nd Earl of Warwick. They all had shares in the Virginia Company, a major tobacco importer to England.
See Nic Costa's research on Andrew Rich

The custom is, before you fill,
To put a penny in the till,
When you have filled, without delay,
Close the lid, or sixpence pay.

[treefrog]

Another basic tin version with hidden mechanism and push button release

[bob]

Unlike our previous Liberal Prime Minister Tony Abbot who famously said in a televised speech to the party faithful that "no one is a suppository (sic) of all wisdom", Mr Pennymachines is certainly a repository of all knowledge concerning coin op machines.

This would seem to explain why my repeated searches in the Melbourne Public Library and the Canberra Patent Office, which I thought had all the published early British Patents did not turn up Rich's patent. This is presumably one of those English patents granted between 1617 and 30 September 1852 which were identified from the "Rolls". Some of these had technical specifications and it is possible that Rich's patent is one of these. Unfortunately it seems that although these details now exist in digital form they are only "available to BL staff and public PCs only". I imagine that this would preclude access by me in Australia. Perhaps someone in the UK could follow this up on a "public PC" in a UK Public Library or branch of the British Patent Office.

It was quite delightful to see the illustration of the charming Early Toleware Honour Box with painted fox & pheasant and also Treefrog's basic tin version with hidden mechanism and push button release, both of which I was not previously aware. All of the Honour Boxes I have come across or seen illustration of, have been variations of Rich's patent, similarly made of brass of a similar size but having slightly different feet, handle or coin entry.

[pennymachines]

More examples, copied from the Arena and Saleroom roundups:

A Halfpenny pay,
Before you fill;
Or Forfeit Sixpence,
Which you will

[pennymachines]

"Boat-shaped" variant.

[arrgee]

And another 'boat shape' variant in a fellow collector's possession. I took the photo a few years ago.

[pennymachines]

SQ_MG_0626a.jpg (50.94 KiB) Viewed 582 times

'A Halfpenny put into the Till,
Press down the knob & your pipe then fill,
When it is filled, without delay,
Shut down the lid or Sixpence pay.’

Nic Costa's new Penny in the Slot book delves deep into the origins of honour boxes.

Notably, his research has discovered an obituary naming Andrew Rich (watchmaker) as patentee of the aforementioned Rich's Patent boxes. No patent has surfaced yet, but a date between 1826 - 1829 can be surmised.

If much earlier references to coin operated tobacco boxes cannot be found, the 1600s date I referenced is implausible.

It's perhaps significant that Nic finds several individuals producing versions of the device around the same time:

Samuel Stocker (gunsmith) filed patent number 12852 for a coin-operated tobacco box in 1849; in the early 1840s Green & Broad, locksmiths of New York, manufactured a box which appears to have been based upon Rich's;

"Penny Papers", Green & Broad Co., New York

Penny Papers

penny-papers.jpg (117.75 KiB) Viewed 583 times

American box advertising Lola Bell Tobacco by the P. Lorillard Company

LolaBella.jpg (67.29 KiB) Viewed 577 times

and a few years before Rich, in 1822, William Hodghon (tinsmith) advertised a mechanical tobacco caddy: "far superior to the old one, by doing away with the crank; the moment the half-penny is dropped in, you will touch the thumb-piece, and the lead will fall completely back, with the spring and tumbler."

So evidently, at least one version of the tobacco box existed before 1822.

Interestingly, the unusual (and very early looking) toleware example has a crank, but Rich's Patent boxes (as below) have a thumb-piece, or brass button, and work as Hodghon's advert describes,

TB1.jpg (88.27 KiB) Viewed 581 times

whilst others (as below) have done away with the button, and flip open upon insertion of a coin.

[daleman]

Really good observations as ever. The key to developing coin operated machines was having reliable and consistent coins. These were the major developments in the late 1700's as witnessed by Abel Buell's efforts in the States and Solomon Henry's in the UK, as detailed by Nic Costa.

[treefrog]

Given how basic the mechanisms were I doubt coin reliability would have made much difference. People could stick any object of the right size in the hole… Perhaps the word 'honesty' was not just associated with how much you stuck in them, but what you put in them as well…

The first proper pennies did not appear until 1825 as we know them… the earlier Boulton Soho coins were much thicker, so would have had a brief use if made for slot machines.

[daleman]

As you can see Rich's machine dates from 1826-8 after the introduction of the first proper pennies.