C.M. Schwarz Tura

American, British, French or German? We want to know about it.
User avatar
daveslot
Posts: 498
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:00 pm
Reactions score: 0
Location: wilts/dorset/somerset border

Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura

Post by daveslot »

santelmann wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:49 pm
mastereddy69 wrote: Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:35 pm Does anyone know what that little glass window is on the top left of the front of the machine?
Normaly is a small numbered disc (2 ,4,8,12,16,20), driven by some gears from payout unit, behind the window.
It shows the value of last profit.
In 99% the parts a missing. I knew only 2 machines that still have this item.
Think I have a version of this in a rather plain case but with a complete mech. Skills, vender, future play.

Responses to this post split to Jentzsch & Meerz Giganta - Site Admin
Attachments
IMG_20190909_23054a.jpg
IMG_20190909_22490a.jpg
IMG_20190909_23075a.jpg
User avatar
badpenny
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7231
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 12:41 pm
Reactions score: 28
Location: East Midlands

Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura

Post by badpenny »

mastereddy69 wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:46 pm And is it true that the mechanisms of a Tura were made by Mills or is that not true?
My understanding is that the prototypes were Mills mechs. The idea being that they did the project work. However why I think that I have no idea, I might have read it somewhere or I might just have simply made it up.

BP !PUZZLED!
santelmann
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:07 pm
Reactions score: 0

Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura

Post by santelmann »

It`s not easy to answer that question. I had some discussions with other collectors in the past.
I think Tura used Mills parts, as far they were available, and complete with own parts. Missing parts were produced in Germany.
There were different workshops in the Tura factory building:
Paintshop, joinery, electroplating, metal punch. A lot of work was done by external factories, all castings for example.

There were some German manufacturers who used Mills (and other) machines to build their „own“ product.
For example some stripes for the typical Mills reels: Tura (Schwarz) in paper, Coppel (F.Coppel) in sheet metal:
Attachments
Walzenstreifen-a.jpg
road76
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:26 pm
Reactions score: 0

Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura

Post by road76 »

badpenny wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:52 pm
mastereddy69 wrote: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:46 pm And is it true that the mechanisms of a Tura were made by Mills or is that not true?
My understanding is that the prototypes were Mills mechs. The idea being that they did the project work. However why I think that I have no idea, I might have read it somewhere or I might just have simply made it up.

BP !PUZZLED!
If you translate the Tura document, they said:
Note
Our products are
own German intellectual and manual work
no slave-like imitation of foreign models or patent infringement, therefore no risk of tarnishing as with similar models. On request, all machines can be supplied with a running belt, as in the past.
Now looks like a Mills mech !!!!
About colors, I think most of the machine was yellow, red and black colors of German flag.
User avatar
badpenny
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7231
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 12:41 pm
Reactions score: 28
Location: East Midlands

Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura

Post by badpenny »

The full story I learnt was.
Gambling in pre war Germany was fiercely controlled.
Hitler looking for every opportunity to raise money suddenly legalised gambling machines.
Mills were invited to supply via Tura Automatenfabrik, prototypes and then large orders, which Mills were never paid for.
All the research & development having been done, Tura started domestic manufacturing and got clearance to import aluminium for casting.
Most of which along with other false projects was diverted to aircraft manufacture.

Now that's all a conglomeration of various conversations I've had in Europe.
I don't know how accurate it is, only that I heard similar accounts from different directions. After all, does it sound like the kind of shenanigans a splendid bunch of chaps like that would have contrived?

I am wary of history being created from stories.
santelmann
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:07 pm
Reactions score: 0

Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura

Post by santelmann »

badpenny wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 2:36 pm Mills were invited to supply via Tura Automatenfabrik, prototypes and then large orders, which Mills were never paid for.
All the research & development having been done, Tura started domestic manufacturing and got clearance to import aluminium for casting.
Schwarz was a trader in early times (together with Coppel) for Mills, then for Jennings.
In 1932 foreign exchange control started in Germany, so there was no chance to import machines legally. Coppel tried smuggling machines to sell with his own castings as a German product. He was later arrested for this.
So Schwarz was forced to build his "own" machines in Germany.
User avatar
badpenny
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7231
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 12:41 pm
Reactions score: 28
Location: East Midlands

Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura

Post by badpenny »

Thanks
santelmann
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:07 pm
Reactions score: 0

Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura

Post by santelmann »

Hi, BP!

When you really intersted in Schwarz history, I could scan a lot of documents.
There are a lot of legends, mostly not true. Materials for casting were in the "Silent" age also availble without problems.

The production of German market bandits ended with a "visit" of authorities in the Tura factory. He cheated them in case that he produced other "Kasus" mechanism than approved. All Kasus machines were forbidden immediately and banned.
For customers Schwarz looks like a con artist.....

Schwarz.jpg
Schwarz.jpg (731.82 KiB) Viewed 1833 times

User avatar
coppinpr
Posts: 5160
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:01 pm
Reactions score: 27
Location: Lewes, East Sussex
Contact:

Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura

Post by coppinpr »

I've just completed some artwork for a Tura in France, simple designs but effective.
award card 5a ready sized.jpg
award card 5a ready sized.jpg (104.07 KiB) Viewed 1812 times


tura BAR 2a.jpg
tura BAR 2a.jpg (25.55 KiB) Viewed 1812 times


tura logo 3.jpg
tura logo 3.jpg (40.01 KiB) Viewed 1812 times


extras 3.png
extras 3.png (179.45 KiB) Viewed 1812 times

User avatar
badpenny
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7231
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 12:41 pm
Reactions score: 28
Location: East Midlands

Re: C.M. Schwarz Tura

Post by badpenny »

santelmann wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:03 am Hi, BP!

When you really intersted in Schwarz history, I could scan a lot of documents.
There are a lot of legends, mostly not true. Materials for casting were in the "Silent" age also availble without problems.

The production of German market bandits ended with a "visit" of authorities in the Tura factory. He cheated them in case that he produced other "Kasus" mechanism than approved. All Kasus machines were forbidden immediately and banned.
For customers Schwarz looks like a con artist.....

Schwarz.jpg
Fascinating, lesser squabbles have ended in war you know.
And hearsay passed into history as truth.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest