Always willing to learn.....

Somebody knows... Maybe you?
Post Reply
roger
Posts: 379
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:43 pm
Reaction score: 2

Always willing to learn.....

Post by roger »


old man cap gown.jpg
old man cap gown.jpg (4.43 KiB) Viewed 664 times

Despite my age, I keep getting calls from collectors who are familiar with my former accumulation of English coin-ops. There are many questions concerning the so called "ALLWINS" which were a large part of my trove of machines. They question why these speciality machines sell for an array of prices whereas they are so similar in operation and differ only in the graphics.
Perhaps, our members could enlighten us Yankees as to what turns you on in selecting an "ALLWIN" and perhaps your guess as to why they never became popular in the U.S.
ROGER
Attachments
allwin2.jpg
allwin2.jpg (71.11 KiB) Viewed 664 times
alllwin 1.jpg
alllwin 1.jpg (61.18 KiB) Viewed 664 times
User avatar
gameswat
Posts: 2166
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:17 am
Reaction score: 3
Location: perth, australia

Re: Always willing to learn.....

Post by gameswat »

Well Roger, why are Allwins any different than the so called "One Arm Bandits" that are also machines that sell for an array of prices whereas they are so similar in operation and differ only in the graphics!?!?

As for varying prices for Allwins in the US, almost no Yanks have ever been seriously interested in them, other than JP, and the majorly undereducated market place was his main reason for that! Roger you yourself have told us many stories of having owned some major Brit pieces and having sold them on for a quick profit, so you weren't that interested. When i was travelling in the US in 2005-2007-2012 I was able to purchase many allwins from $50-$75 usd! Sometimes went as high as $100. And the sellers were happy to find me as I was the first person to actually show any interest in decades of ownership. Shipping them back to Australia made great sense as we used the same old coinage as mother England.
User avatar
gameswat
Posts: 2166
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:17 am
Reaction score: 3
Location: perth, australia

Re: Always willing to learn.....

Post by gameswat »

Just reread, and the line about you not being that interested is not quite what I meant to say. Roger, obviously you were well ahead of the curve as a Yank actually buying Brit machines, especially when almost nobody else would even look at them! But I can appreciate that when nobody else shows anywhere near as much interest as you did that when someone came along and offered any kind of profit, you grabbed it! Much like JP though, you saw a flaw in the market and both realised these brit machines were woefully undervalued in the US marketplace. I've made a decent living doing the same thing, buying machines in the wrong country, shipping back to Aust, which is terribly bereft of machines of all kinds, then restoring and eventually selling.
User avatar
john t peterson
Posts: 1316
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:40 pm
Reaction score: 0
Location: USA

Re: Always willing to learn.....

Post by john t peterson »

I think Gameswat pretty much nailed it. We pine for the items of our youth. That is nowhere more evident than here on PennyMachines where most postings are now about fruit machines as opposed to the older British games. There is a category of outliers like Roger and me who are attracted to the "odd balls" from other countries. The market for theses games will be limited due to their unfamiliarity in the host country. This unfamiliarity leads to low pricing which is another name for opportunity.

Speaking only for myself, my interest in these wonders was sparked in the early '70s when I was flying to England on a regular basis for three years as a Naval Aviator. Although I did not acquire any machines at the time, I developed a keen appreciation for the British people and all things English. The seed was planted.

Why are some games worth more than others? Rarity, cosmetic appearance, popularity just to name a few of the factors that drive desire.

J Peterson
Acquired taste, USA
roger
Posts: 379
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:43 pm
Reaction score: 2

Bored to Death.

Post by roger »

Gameswat and JP came out of the woodwork at the mere mention of "Allwins"....they are certainly the experts in this area of collecting.

I did a little more research on the subject and found that gambling laws in various countries influenced what type of gambling devices were developed.

Gameswat also pointed out that a standard one-armed badit collection is much like collecting Allmins. These types of collections need a bit of diversity (in my opinion)... I took out an old auction catalogue consisting of primarily 350 "run of the mill" bandits and nearly fell asleep in the process. ROGER
downloadold man reading.jpg
downloadold man reading.jpg (8.64 KiB) Viewed 534 times

User avatar
gameswat
Posts: 2166
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 5:17 am
Reaction score: 3
Location: perth, australia

Re: Always willing to learn.....

Post by gameswat »

Roger, funnily enough the last 3 months I've been immersed in the US collecting scene from 1977 until a few years ago, and to a lesser extent the UK scene as well, thanks to inheriting the huge coin-op magazine collection from Aussie super collector Bob Klepner. What is amazing is how obsessed the scene was in the 70's and 80's with three reel slot machines, and of course in the higher price bracket the earlier floor machines. There was definitely a "mania" that captured the public about gambling machine of all kinds, especially once states in the US legalized collecting them.

The prices for arcade machines in the '70s and '80s were woefully low in the US. As with most US phenomena the UK quickly followed suit regarding bandits and then a little later the rest of the world. The amount of hype back then about bloody Watling Rolatops and to a slightly lesser extent the Treasury is amazing! I once owned a Rolatop coin top mint front that had been operated in France, and while I was excited to find it locally back in the mid 1990s, I lost interest in it by the early 2000s and sold it on. After reading these mags I probably should have shipped it stateside and would have done much better price wise. I just didn't rate it that much as kind of a clunky mech compared to Mills and most others. But that's a classic example of the look of the machine capturing the public's imagination, just like the 1015 Wurlitzers did.

Thankfully there have been a handful of maverick collectors such as yourself and JP in the US that did notice these oddball Brit and Euro machines before anybody else did.
pennymachines
Site Admin
Posts: 6501
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:12 am
Reaction score: 14
Location: The Black Country

Re: Always willing to learn.....

Post by pennymachines »

I find it a bit puzzling that allwins found no place in the American amusement machine industry. As you suggest Roger, this must be largely the result of the different legislative and enforcement conditions, and perhaps cultural differences too. Probably for similar reasons, trade stimulators never had much place in the UK. A few were operated as gaming or amusement machines, but I don't think they were used in shops to stimulate trade.

It was illegal to operate one armed bandits (or any gambling device) anywhere in the UK until the Betting and Gaming Act of 1960, which restricted them to licensed betting shops and clubs. The allwin however, with its low payouts and semblance of skill was tolerated to a large degree. It's notable that although many were manufactured in Germany in the 1930s, this was chiefly for export to the UK, as conditions were unfavourable for them in Germany.

Among British collectors, there's still something of a divide between bandit and wall machine enthusiasts, as evidenced by some of the exchanges in this forum. We tend to fall into two camps. Some of us, as Gameswat said, have the same take on bandits as your friends do on allwins: "they are so similar in operation and differ only in the graphics." Or put another way, it's the same game in a different box.

Even if that was true, it's in the nature of collectors to focus upon differences, small or otherwise; consider the impact that subtle mint errors can have upon a coin's value. The huge visual and aesthetic variety in cabinet, castings and graphic artwork, etc. together with the relative rarity of some of these designs, provides plenty of scope for slot machine collectors.

Which offer the most play variety, bandits or allwins? Bandits have many different payout schemes, between one and four spinning reels, but otherwise there's not a huge difference between Charles Fey's Liberty Bell of 1894 and Gunter Wulff's Beromat of 1955. The exceptions are few and far between, like the AC Novelty Multibell or the Mills Futurity and Bonus. Many allwins differ chiefly in graphics and win-cup arrangements, although the less tightly curved track on oversize examples produces a markedly different 'feel' to the game. There are however many allwins with interesting added features which ring the changes: Ruffler & Walker's Multiballs, Bryans' Gapwin and 3 ball series, Brenner's Ball Past the Arrow, Shefras' Time Limit and Extrawin, Wonders' Boomerang, Cannon Balls and Chip or Bust, to name a few.

Like bandits, allwins were made for decades in several countries, so there's also much stylistic variation from Art Nouveau/Arts & Crafts (pre WW2 French), Art Deco (1930s BMCo., Hawtins etc.), arguably a Germanic style ('30s Jentzsch & Meerz), Pop Art/'Comic Cuts' flashes (1950-60s Whales, Wonders, Parkers), to the naïve-art of Australian Wineasys.

As John says, our preferences tend to be set by early experiences. I recall feeling slightly affronted by pure gaming machines, thinking, "there's nothing I can do to beat the odds, so what's the point of it?" I homed in on the 'skill games' which I thought (usually wrongly) might be an easier touch.
roger
Posts: 379
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:43 pm
Reaction score: 2

Party Time

Post by roger »


knickers.jpg
knickers.jpg (46.62 KiB) Viewed 311 times

We all seem to agree that U.S. slots and U.K. allwins were produced in such quantities and without any significant mechanical differences so as to make them reach a saturation point for collectors.

There are some exceptions and I have enumerated a few machines that are quite unique. If they tickle your fancy, I must warn you that you should prepare to dig deep into your knickers.
ROGER

THE SNAKE (Hoke)... Requires a skilled effort to pop a ball into the mouth of the snake so as to receive your bandit winnings.

snake.jpeg
snake.jpeg (100.51 KiB) Viewed 311 times


GOLF-BALL (Pace)... You better grab one of these in case the curreny laws are enacted.

golf.jpeg
golf.jpeg (119.09 KiB) Viewed 311 times


SKILL+STOP BASEBALL.. (Mills)... Takes some skill to stop the reels in a winning postion.

17620446_1_smbaseball.jpeg
17620446_1_smbaseball.jpeg (139.02 KiB) Viewed 311 times


HORSE RACE (Superior) Pick your winning horse.

horse.jpeg
horse.jpeg (197.21 KiB) Viewed 311 times


DICE SLOT (Buckley Bones)... Roll the dice to determine your payout. A mechanical wonder.

buckley bones.jpeg
buckley bones.jpeg (154.71 KiB) Viewed 311 times

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 4 guests