Newby needs help with 'Honest Joe'

[rattitude]

Here are pictures of my homemade replacement hinges (in brass).
The original plan was to nickel plate them to stay somewhat true to the original (pictured upper right), but I liked the rich patina of the existing brass so decided instead to chemically patina the hinges to try and match the locks. They'll do until I find originals.

[slotalot]

Well done that man! and I bet it feels good too?

[badpenny]

Superb!! .... what did you use to chemically do the patina?

[rattitude]

Well done that man! and I bet it feels good too?

Thank you, Sir! That means a great deal after seeing your custom work!

[rattitude]

Superb!! .... what did you use to chemically do the patina?

Thanks!
I tried various things, such as ammonia gassing, deep into the night, but the results were too uniform and only hit the surface. Finally I did the following;
1/3 cup vinegar
1/3 cup custodial strength, non-sudsing ammonia,
2 tablespoons salt
Just dampen kitty litter, place in airtight food container, bury hinges, and wash after 3 hours.
The results were actually a bit much, with all sorts of pretty blues and greens and more pitting than I'd have liked, but I burnished them with 0000 steel wool to achieve something more similar to the locks.
What I really like about this technique is that it produced a very deep patina that I don't have to clear coat or worry about.

[pennymachines]

I've added dimensions to the last two images I posted on the first page of this thread. The hopper is 1 3/8" high at the front and 1 5/8" high at the back (wasn't room on the picture for these). The 1/8" coin slide should not be too tight between the cast hopper cradle and the brass plate above.

[rattitude]

Thanks so much for ripping back into your machine and taking all those measurements. It is a great help. I'll try and do you proud on the reproduction.

I jumped the gun and bought materials earlier today. My only mistake was the tube, which has a larger inner diameter than this. I'm quite surprised to see how narrow it really is supposed to be-- not much larger than the coin diameter at all!

According to the dimensions, the slider plate is 1/8" thick, then the channel milled to about half the thickness of a coin (about .035"). That leaves the hole itself in the slider about 1 1/2 coin thicknesses deep (about 0.09"). So yours must be a a 2 coin payout, right?

Looking forward to getting this done and I'll post the results. I have 2 ongoing projects technically in front of this one, but I may have to cheat a bit and bring this to the forefront.

[rattitude]

"Newby buys Allwin. Needs help!" thread merged with "What's proper/typical payout for 24 cup Allwin?" - Site Admin.

Please excuse my ignorance. Being from the US I never get to see these machines in person and didn't grow up with them.

Is the typical payout for a 24 winning cup/1 losing cup machine 1 coin or 2? And are the payouts always accompanied by a free go?

I've seen a video of it on youtube where it pays out one coin plus a free go. I need to build the payout mechanism from scratch and want to make sure I get it right. The measurements I've gotten from all the help here and elsewhere seem to be for payout of 2 coins. I like the idea of a 2 coin payout, but it might be excessive and I want it to be true to the original.

Thanks!

[badpenny]

On some machines the "free go" is switchable offable ......eh? I'll try that again.......

You can adjust the mech on some allwins so that the free ball option doesn't operate.

[rattitude]

Thanks.
But... where's the fun in that? You would win nothing but your coin back then. Seems like a naughty ripoff

[pennymachines]

If a game offers more than 1D as a prize, the ball return may be considered too generous. Bryans allwins allow the operator to make adjustments to the skill required to win and the amounts paid, so it makes sense to offer a no ball return option. Some locations played strictly by the "amusement only" rules and operated games awarding either a returned coin or a free play for winning, with no possibility of monetary gain. An allwin with single penny payout and the ball return disabled would suit such a location.

Going from memory alone, I think the Honest Joe is a single penny payout with ball return. The 24 cup layout makes it generous enough on this scheme.

According to the dimensions, the slider plate is 1/8" thick, then the channel milled to about half the thickness of a coin (about .035"). That leaves the hole itself in the slider about 1 1/2 coin thicknesses deep (about 0.09"). So yours must be a a 2 coin payout, right?

Yes, the one I measured is a 2 coin slide, but I think you need a 1 coin version. The milled out part is only on the left side of the hole (working from my photo). The other edge of the hole is two (unworn) pennies deep (the thickness of the slide) - or a penny deep in the case of your 1 coin slide. During play, the correct number of coins for a payout are already seated within the hole in the slide. When the knob is turned for a payout, the slide moves towards the hole in the hopper cradle, allowing the coin(s) to drop out. As the slide moves beneath the coins in the hopper, the lower edge of the hopper retains the next coin in the stack. The milled-out edge of the slide prevents it from catching the edge of this coin if the coin(s) beneath are a bit thin. When the knob is released, the slide is reloaded as it returns to its resting position.

[rattitude]

Hey there!

I finally finished my payout mechanism for this machine (see Homemade Allwin payout mechanism - Site Admin). 15 minutes here, a few minutes there... With all the variation in penny thickness ranging over 70 years in age, plus the 1 coin payout design, it had to be milled to very tight tolerances. But, it works like a charm. I put a few hundred pennies through it and the payouts were smooth with no jams. Fun, fun project! Plus, it gave me an excuse to buy a cross slide vise for my drill press. Woohoo!

So, I'm looking for advice on the protective playfield covering. Any materials to recommend for this?

As always, thanks!

[pennymachines]

Congratulations and well done for bringing new life to another old game.

Some UK (and presumably US) garden centres sell flexible transparent plastic for constructing cloches, poly-tunnels etc. It comes on a roll in two thicknesses and offers the advantage of UV protecting your paperwork (with a very slight blue tint - unnoticeable in use). I've used both gauges but had to resort to longer split pins when remounting the runners over the thick stuff.

[john t peterson]

My goodness, Mr. Rattitude, what marvelous work! If you need another career as an allwin restorer, you're already on the road to success. Well done, Sir; well done indeed!

J Peterson
Your American admirer

[rattitude]

My goodness, Mr. Rattitude, what marvelous work! If you need another career as an allwin restorer, you're already on the road to success. Well done, Sir; well done indeed!

J Peterson
Your American admirer

From one American to another, thank you. I'm flattered.

[rattitude]

Some UK (and presumably US) garden centres sell flexible transparent plastic for constructing cloches, poly-tunnels etc. It comes on a roll in two thicknesses and offers the advantage of UV protecting your paperwork (with a very slight blue tint - unnoticeable in use).

Thanks for the resource info.
This leads to another question.
The stuff that's covering the backflash now is cut to the edges of the wooden frame and badly curled up. It was also tacked down in each corner (through the artwork! ). I'm guessing this was a shoddy attempt by a former owner at restoration.
Is this supposed to be the way the protective cover is attached, or should it be oversized and pinned between 2 layers of wood around the perimeter?

As always, thanks!

[rattitude]

And another question, if you all would be so kind...
The bumper/plunger thingy that hits the ball-- is it supposed to be just steel on the tip, or should it have a layer of brass, rubber, or something else?
Thanks!

[coin-op]

The plunger is just made of steel. However, on the inside face of the hammer cover (left side with the hole for the hammer head), there should be a piece of rubber held in place to dampen the impact of the hammer hitting the hammer cover. This rubber can sometimes fall out or erode. If it's in place and okay, the hammer head, when in the rest position should be just about flush with the hole it sits in.

[slotalot]

Hi Rattitude
have you seen the Oliver Whales Spares List?
It will give you some idea of what a set of allwin parts look like

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=814

[pennymachines]

The stuff that's covering the backflash now is cut to the edges of the wooden frame and badly curled up. It was also tacked down in each corner (through the artwork! ). I'm guessing this was a shoddy attempt by a former owner at restoration.
Is this supposed to be the way the protective cover is attached, or should it be oversized and pinned between 2 layers of wood around the perimeter?

I would advise cutting the plastic oversize so that its edges are held securely behind the wooden frame. The original plastics are actually pinned at the corners by flat-headed tacks. There's one top left, two top right over the instruction card, two bottom left over the payout card and one bottom right, hidden by the striker box. Don't try hammering pins through the plastic because it's liable to split and splinter. Always pre-drill the holes. This applies to cutting as well - mark the shape to cut and drill out the corners before inserting a blade. This prevents over-cutting and splitting beyond the intended cut-line.