Veneering

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treefrog
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Veneering

Post by treefrog »

Stoxman22 has posted a potential supplier of veneers onto the resource section (Real Wood Veneer Supplies), which has reminded me to ask what people's experience of taking on a veneering has been. Being a total novice, I was considering completing refurbs on a bunch of Beromats I have, where the ravages of time have left the cases rather worn and tattered looking. I know Harold (EnglishmanII) has done a great job on his machines, but anyone had any experience of iron on veneer. Also I note that they seem to have a thicker base backing, but have not seen these for sale, similar to the rougher material on the back of Beromats.

TIA
stoxman22
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Re: Veneering

Post by stoxman22 »

By coincidence I found the veneer company because I am re covering a Beromat. The bloke at the company made it sound simple to re-veneer. I have since found out I missed some vital info. The veneers they make are not iron on they are thin slices of plain wood. I have found that it is very hard to cut them with the grain, you get a very poor edge which is not good if you are trying to join two pieces to cover the front. The technique is to either put the two pieces of veneer on top of each other and trap them between two large straight edged pieces of wood with them slightly proud and then sand the edges flat to the wood they are trapped in. Or place one on top of the other and cut the edge off with a veneer knife against a straight edge.
I have fixed mine with PVA which is what the guy recommended but I have heard that most people use an impact adhesive like Evostick.
Finally I have managed to do the front panel without flattening the veneer first as I only found that is is best to flatten it when I looked up how to apply veneer on the net. When I put the veneer on it absorbed the PVA and curled up like a medieval scroll.

Having said all that the front is looking quite nice now and a test of different varnishes is looking good for the satin finish.
raj
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Re: Veneering

Post by raj »

You need to apply a glue base first (available from your veneer supplier) with a hot iron, then, once the glue is totally secure, iron on the veneer. Cutting with the grain is difficult & best done with a guillatine ( sorry about the spelling). Heavy even pressure is needed to make the veneer stick & even on flat surfaces this can result in air bubbles. These can be sliced and glued with PVA. Curved sides are even more difficult.
Be prepared to start over if it goes.
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badpenny
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Re: Veneering

Post by badpenny »

This all seems ripe to me for a bout of practicing a few new adjectives whilst learning how aerodynamic your tools are.......... !MOODY!
stoxman22
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Re: Veneering

Post by stoxman22 »

Update; My first attempt at veneering looked ok the day I did it. Two days later it looks like a dog’s dinner. Splits all along the edges. Gaps where the two sheets meet. Glue all over the place. Looks like it is all coming off for a second try.
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slotalot
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Re: Veneering

Post by slotalot »

Stoxman22 wrote: Gaps where the two sheets meet.
Hi Stoxman22 :D
Just a thought !PUZZLED! ...are you firmly taping the two sheets together on the finished side"before" you glue them to the base board? This will help to stop the cracks opening up on the finished work; also if you place a sheet of newspaper over the veneer with a flat board on top with lots of weights pressing it down until the glue dries you may get better results !THUMBS! Any excess glue, tape and newspaper can be sanded off later when it's dry, :tarah:
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badpenny
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Re: Veneering

Post by badpenny »

There speaks the voice of a patient artisan ............... if this were me I think at this stage I'd be reaching for the 6" nails and my very special thumpometer !GRUMBLES!
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operator bell
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Re: Veneering

Post by operator bell »

I veneered a Novomat a couple of years ago. It was my first veneering job and I don't mind telling you, I spoke a few choice words during the process. It's a good thing the veneer store had a minimum order and I had to buy five times as much as I needed. My veneer was too narrow to cover the front in one sheet, so I had to join two sheets down the middle.

After carefully trimming and aligning two strips for the front, I brushed them with PVA glue. They promptly rolled up into tight little tubes an inch in diameter. I carefully cut another two pieces and thought I could trick it by pasting the case instead of the veneer. It went on nice and flat, then wrinkled up in a washboard profile. Oh, it will flatten out when it dries, I though. But it didn't.

After chiseling and sanding the veneer and dried glue off, I went the contact adhesive route. Large can of glue and paintbrush in hand, I liberally coated the machine and the veneer. No wrinkling, no rolling, good. I let it dry and carefully laid it in place, then went to bed. When it dried, it shrank. Let me tell you, it's a lot more difficult to remove contact adhesive than PVA.

Finally I did it with contact adhesive again, except this time I laid down and carefully matched up the edges of the strips down the center of the machine, preventing it touching anywhere else by laying down a quantity of pencils as spacers. I let it set up for an hour or two, then rubbed the rest of it down working out from the center, leaving an overhang to trim off later. There were no air bubbles but there was a piece of grit blown in. Luckily it ended up underneath one of the metal trims and can't be seen.

By comparison, the rest of it was easy.
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slotalot
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Re: Veneering

Post by slotalot »

Badpenny wrote: There speaks the voice of a patient artisan
Artisan? Me? !PUZZLED! No I just like to have a go :oops: and I have made my fair share of ***** ups with veneer, but you are right when you say I am patient !SAINT! I think you have to be as it's not an easy thing to do :dammit:
I have just found this on the internet that may shed some light on how to get a good finish, I may try this next time I do any :tarah:

[youtube]3rrMtYHTAIs[/youtube]
pennymachines
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Re: Veneering

Post by pennymachines »

I've used the traditional animal glue for veneering (casting aside my vegetarian scruples). It's liquid when hot (melted in a glue pot), so if things don't go smoothly, all is not lost. Adjustments can be made with the aid of a steam iron.
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badpenny
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Re: Veneering

Post by badpenny »

Pencils, Steam Irons, Washboards, Vegetarianism ?????
Thank you everyone you have just given me so many reasons for not getting involved in this particular travesty of our hobby! !:STOP:!
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daveslot
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veneering

Post by daveslot »

Veneering topics merged - Site admin.

Just bought a French allwin. Unfortunately the case was recently veneered with ply. Just taken this off but most of the original veneer is missing. Can anyone identify the wood? Think it's walnut, as I am going to attempt re-veneering.
Anybody got any tips on the glue to use? Anybody tried glue film or is preglued the way to go?
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gameswat
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Re: veneering

Post by gameswat »

Hi, def looks like walnut to me too. I'm not a fan of the iron on veneer. We used it on some pool tables 20 years ago and I remember it peeling and tearing off quite easily over time. OK for use on modern furniture I guess. But you should go the traditional route and use real veneer and wood glue. As long as you cover the whole veneer piece with a suitable size board and then clamp it securely you should have no probs. I cut the veneer slightly oversize and then tape it into place as it likes to slide around with the layer of glue as you're clamping. I have some huge steel blocks I use in the middle of large boards to keep them flat when my clamps won't reach. Good luck!
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Re: veneering

Post by coin-op »

I have to confess to having done extremely little veneering. But thought I'd mention that I was once told that if you use animal glue rather than modern wood glue, the advantage is that if you don't get it right, you can use an iron to heat it up, re-melt it and try again. I did use animal glue once; not quite as simple and fast as wood glue squirting out of a plastic bottle, but it worked fine...so didn't have to try melting it again. Obviously, with animal glue you need to melt it down from pelets in the first place and need a glue pot, so as I say, its not a simple as squeezing it out of a modern plastic container. As Gameswa mentions, clamps and heavy weights are essencial to have on hand as the one bit that isn't firmly pressed down will stand proud once you take away the clamps etc.
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gameswat
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Re: veneering

Post by gameswat »

Coinop, good point. I've messed around with hide glue but found it complicated to get right, seemed to set way too quickly for me? The normal wood glue is water soluble so you can just lay a wet towel over the veneer and it will peel off pretty quickly. Even old wood glue joints will open with some water. Which also works for old hide glue too. Though usually they've already broken from being brittle with age. I get my vintage veneer from old furniture panels and leave them in the rain or soak with a hose and it will eventually lift off by itself if you don't rush it. A buddy in the US sticks his wrecked Wurlitzer cabinets outside and then cultivates the veneer. He had a few drawers full and let me take what i needed for some of my restorations. You can't get any closer a match than that!
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daveslot
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Re: Veneering

Post by daveslot »

Thanks for the replies from gameswat and coin-op, and site admin for veneering the topics and subtly pointing out the subject had been brought up before.
I like the idea of cultivating Wurlitzer veneers, I used to steam them off, but that seems better, just leave them by the bin to mature.
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badpenny
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Re: Veneering

Post by badpenny »

daveslot wrote:thanks for the replies from gameswat and coin-op, and site admin for veneering the topics and subtly pointing out the subject had been brought up before
like the idea of cultivating wurlitzer veneers, i used to steam them off, but that seems better, just leave them
by the bin to mature
Moving from Coventry to Derby has caused a very sad occurence for me, namely losing my compost heap from which many a treasure has been plucked.
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slotalot
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Re: Veneering

Post by slotalot »

Badpenny wrote: Moving from Coventry to Derby has caused a very sad occurence for me, namely losing my compost heap from which many a treasure has been plucked.
BUGGER!!! That means I am going to start paying for my machines :cry:
But on the plus side.....you have moved nearer to Slotalot's secret slot machine restoration facility. !!YIPPEE!!
stoxman22
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Re: Veneering

Post by stoxman22 »

Funny this should come up again. I am now on my third attempt to veneer the same machine I started the thread about. I have tried wood glue, the iron on sheet glue and I am now on the ready glued veneer....
I got in contact with a veneer company on the net, can't remember who at the minute and he told me to use the glue sheet and veneer tape. I bought all the kit including a veneer saw and it still looks rubbish. '!' I gave up before even trying to do the front of the case. Took me ages to get the glue sheet off. Third time lucky I hope.

Stoxman
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Veneer

Post by willborl »

Topic merged - site admin.

Has anyone had any experience of re-doing the veneer of a machine?

Is it easier to repair it or just start over with new?

Thanks
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