Help wanted identifying a couple of machines

[ilovemyjukebox]

Hello Group.

First of all I would like to apologise for my very obvious lack of knowledge on all things Allwin/Slots etc. I have been lurking for some time now and read every post egarly.

Today I have come across a couple of machines. The first is a Oliver Whales Allwin Inter -Space. I managed to bring that home with me and no doubt will be asking lots of questions in the near future when I try to get it fully working. R

The other machine is a Roto- Fruit. It appears to be a clock like machine with a sinlge hand that stops on a fruit. Nice Marque.

As I will be trading for these machines I am really after as much information as possible but in particular a value. I know that valuing machines is very subjective and lots of things have to be factored in but a rough idea would be great. Both machines appear to be complete and working (in part). They are of a good/worn condition. Certainly not NOS but in my humble opinion not basket cases.

Any help would be gratefully appreciated. I have tried the archives and google without luck.

Dave

[coin-op]

The allwin is an Oliver Whales machine. The other machine is a bryans clock with fruit symbols in place of the standard clock face; I've seen a few of these faces. The topflash is probably an operator addition. I'll leave it to others to suggest values.

[JC]

The forum probably isn’t an appropriate place for valuations – suffice to say the Inter Space is likely to be worth more than the average Whales allwin. Whales didn’t produce that many giant allwins (compared to Wonders) and so do not come up too often. Inter Space is one of the rarer examples – and the space theme seems to be sought-after.

As for the Clock, I’d give it a miss if I were you. As Coin-Op says, the top flash isn’t original, and in addition, the moulding around the top doesn’t look right. If you really want a Clock, they’re not difficult to come by. I think we had 4 at the Coventry auction last year. I might have a really nice one for sale in the near future.

Jerry

[ilovemyjukebox]

Thank you for your quick replies and advice. I must apologise if I have broken etiquette by asking for a valuation on the forum. I read the rules before posting and was not trying to sell the item by the back door.

I do belong to other forums where this is a perfectly acceptable practise. I did try my own research before posting the question. The machines were presented to me on “the spur of the moment” by a seller who knew nothing about them. Had them for years as decoration and wanted a quick decision.

I wanted to be fair in my trade with him but at the same time wanted to try and secure a good deal for me. I’m not sure I would know where else I could go to for advice on valuation.

This is a new branch of the coin operated hobby for me. I am trying to gleam as much as I can and have attended the Coventry auctions etc.

I’m going to pass on the clock but will add the Allwin, my first, to my small collection of coin operated equipment.

Thanks again.

Dave

[JC]

Hello Dave

I wasn’t suggesting you were breaking any taboos by asking for a valuation – I just don’t believe it is wise to value a machine on the strength of a picture. As I’m sure you will appreciate, there are many variables to consider in terms of condition, some of which will be subjective.

As a rough guide though, you should expect to pay £400 - £500 for a fairly run of the mill Whales allwin in good condition. The Inter Space is likely to be worth quite a bit more, but at the end of the day it’s you that’s paying the money, so you need to be comfortable with the price.

Hope that’s helped a bit.

Jerry

[ilovemyjukebox]

Thank Jerry

That's about what I thought from your previous post.. I think I got a good deal without ripping anyone off.

I assume that Allwins, Like most other coin operated toys don't like being on their own and
once I have a pair they will start breding all by themselves. From Mervyn's post I can see he
had exactly the same problem ...

Dave

[treefrog]

I just don’t believe it is wise to value a machine on the strength of a picture. As I’m sure you will appreciate, there are many variables to consider in terms of condition, some of which will be subjective.

I had always wondered why people wouldn't give advice around values, but I agree it is soooo difficult. As on my post about the "Operator sale", when faced with a pile of machines available that I am familiar with and have bought many similar ones before the value when advising is impossible to give. I ended up giving a very wide value and telling the seller that I would not offer to buy and would be best placed to go to auction where it will find it's price.

An example recently on ebay was a Sega Lite Up (non sega/possble britich version) sold on ebay lat week for £300. Looked in poorish condition (chrome). I would have paid no more than 120, as it was not original, had a shafras escalator etc etc. Next week this could have made £100..... This is the issue. I as many do track the sales of machines and they sometimes vary hugely.

Of course another good place to look is the Arena..

[pennymachines]

Hi Dave - we have no policy against discussing values in the Forum, however many of us (myself included) are a little leery of doing so for a number of reasons. As Jerry says, and those of us who've bought machines solely on this basis can attest, valuing from a picture can go seriously awry. Another factor is subjectivity. Maybe I have a nice Interspace I'm planning to put up for sale shortly or maybe Interspace is the very machine I need to complete my collection of space-themed allwins. I can't pretend my valuation wouldn't be coloured by such factors. Trustworthy valuations are based upon what machines actually sold for in the past. The Arena includes records of slot machine hammer prices over the last five years. This information is hidden from casual visitors by dint of a £2 subscription fee.

Every so often I receive an email saying "I have machine X, can you tell me what it's worth?". My answer tends to be along the lines of, "Sorry, I'm a collector - I don't do valuations, but if you wish to sell it, I'd be happy to make you an offer."

So to be honest, collector self-interest is the main reason for not publishing too much about values in the Forum. This site aims to serve the interests of slot machine collectors and enthusiasts above all. While hopefully not wishing to rip anyone off, we're all looking for a bargain. As soon as a book value for every machine is established and made freely available, the effort and reward of hunting down a great find is lost.

Serious enthusiasts diligently acquire knowledge about rarity and value over many years of collecting and reading and this becomes one of their greatest assets, so don't expect them to give it up too freely. Because I know two obsessively completest collectors in America will pay $$$$$$ for a certain obscure game, should I declare this to be its value if asked?

Anyway - forgive the digression and well done on acquiring such a nice allwin. It will certainly need a companion.

[john t peterson]

Mr. Pennymachines,

That was a very erudite explanation of the more subtle dynamics of collecting. I just want to go on record as saying that I am NOT one of the two American collectors Mr. PM referenced, only because my pockets are too shallow.

On the bright side, what should I expect to pay for a BRYANS BUMPER? No, I don't have it in sight, yet, but I'm going to my grave believing one or more is here in the States. When it raises its illusive head, I want that magic figure already established and not have to do my normal "polling the usual suspects" for a good offer price. Is it possible one is deeply hidden in a British collector's closet? After seeing Mervyngoodhew's terrific collection, I have to wonder.

John Peterson
Your American Punter

[malcymal]

Well, from my other pastime of collecting vintage toys, space themed toys are very sought after. I'd expect the allwin to be very desirable to a collector of space themed items even if they aren't a slotty collector by rights. Nice find, enjoy it; it's sure to be a talking point in the home. Be warned though, once you get one machine you will find after a couple of years many of them growing in dark corners of your room.. Malc

[cheeky]

It all depends what you are trading for these machines. The Inter Space allwin is not particularly rare. For one, I have seen many of them being traded/sold for various prices from around £350 for a roughish one.

Not sure I would go for the Clock but again it all depends what you are trading.

Happy collectiing!

[ilovemyjukebox]

Hello Everyone.. I'm now going to bare my ignorance for all to see. Please be gentle we all had to start from scratch once upon a time.

The clock machine that I said I wasn't going to buy, well I managed to get a very good trade on it. Well, I think so anyway.

My question is, what do I have? I know that the cabinet is not original. I thought by comparing with pictures on the net that I have a 12 win clock. The handle, false jackpot and coin tray all seem to be from that machine. But I only have one hand and there is no manual stop facility.

It seems to be working reasonably well. The spin appears to be quite short and it seems to be paying out on a very regular basis. Okay for my 6 & 9 year old but I don't think any of the operators would have been happy.

Any help, cryptic clues etc. gratefully received.

Dave

[coin-op]

Originally as a clock mechanism it would have had two clock hands equating to how a clock operates (and payouts would be 'on the hour'). However, when they converted it to a fruit symbol payout, the clock concept went out the window...so you then only need the one hand to land directly on a winning fruit symbol. So, they just took off the second hand (don't ask me if that means that it's no longer a second hand machine ).
As to the short spin cycle. Well, I guess that could be due to the speed of the rocker bar at the top of the mechanism...there is an adjustment for this. But study what's happening before adjusting anything (although the adjustment here is a simple affair so it's easy to backtrack).
Regarding the payout frequency; basically, it should only pay out when the handle lands on a fruit symbol...if this is what happens then basically it's playing and paying correctly. It may be that adjusting the rocker bar will sort that.
The stop button was a simple chromed button on the top which doesn't seem that effective, so I wouldn't be too concerned about that.
Anyway, these are my thoughts...someone else may have better ones!

[pennymachines]

I just want to go on record as saying that I am NOT one of the two American collectors Mr. PM referenced, only because my pockets are too shallow.

That's right - those American collectors were hypothetical and hypothetical collectors are not welcome here.

Dave - have a look at this thread: Clock Jackpot and Skill Stop - it may answer some of your questions.

Although the top sign is an addition, I suspect your cabinet is original. It's just been tarted up at some time. I can't make out whether mouldings have been tacked to the top or if the whole top is new. The base looks fine and (apart from some patchy oak-faced veneer) the ply front looks OK. The jackpot mechanism should be attached to the inside of the case (possibly missing judging by the pic.) and although frequency of wins can't be reduced, the prizes can - by rotating the gold payout adjustment cam (visible on your mech). The spin is normally a few seconds only. It can be adjusted, as Coin-op says - the brake should come in just before the hand(s) run out of momentum.

[ilovemyjukebox]

Thank you gentlemen for your wise words.

Pennymachines - I think you may be right about the cabinet. The molding on the top is definately an add on and I have a little
sign that says "pennies only" where the skill stop button would have been.

My jackpot appears to be for decoration only although I will be exploring that a little closer at the weekend. The mech is secured in quite nicely to the cabinet by three bolts.

My hand however stops some time before the brake activates. Any clues there plse....

I've found the plate you spoke about that slides up and down to limit the payout.

Just one more thing.... The face does anyone replicate the cards?? I have checked the resources list and found the fruitbowl
and Bryans clock but not my particular face..

Thanks again

Dave

[Bent Copper]

On the bright side, what should I expect to pay for a BRYANS BUMPER? No, I don't have it in sight, yet, but I'm going to my grave believing one or more is here in the States.

You don't have one yet? You should have been in Colwyn Bay a few years ago.

That's where all us UK collectors got ours from.

[arrgee]

Have a look at Melvyn Wrights website where there are a couple of photos of mechanisms and also a link to take you to an original Bryans Fruit Bowl instruction sheet, may not be of any use but nevertheless fascinating.
http://www.melright.com/bryans/bryspin.htm
As you mention, the jackpots were only for decoration.

[arrgee]

Just one more thing.... The face does anyone replicate the cards?? I have checked the resources list and found the fruitbowl
and Bryans clock but not my particular face.

Here is a pic of your machines face Dave, not a particularly crisp one but perhaps a smart photoshop chappie can do something with it.

[coin-op]

As you mention, the jackpots were only for decoration.

The jackpots on clocks are working jackpots (they are hand fill jackpots). So there's no real reason why the jackpot on this machine is not active; it may be that the operator deactivated it so as to make more profit out of the machine....show the cash in the window, but don't pay it out!

[ilovemyjukebox]

Thanks for the picture of the clock face.. I'll have to see if I can do naything with it..

Still haven't had time to explore the jackpot because I've been too busy fiddling with my
latest machine.

I can down this morning and it was sitting in the corner. I think that My Inter Space and my clock must have
had a bit of hanky panky over night and produced my latest baby..

Could someone point me in the right direction for locks please.. I see them come up on Ebay.. Is that
the best place? Can they still be bought new from locksmiths etc.?

Thanks Dave