Mayfield Electronic Dice & Streets Spot Luck identified

Somebody knows... Maybe you?
Potless
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:07 pm
Reaction score: 0

Mayfield Electronic Dice & Streets Spot Luck identified

Post by Potless »

Way back around 1967-69, I can recall playing on a fascinating multi-player dice machine in the Oasis amusement hall at Gt. Yarmouth. The darn thing has been on my mind ever since, because I cannot work out exactly how they made it work!

It was a pretty massive unit, which featured several playing stations located around a huge glass case, in which a rotating dice cage (resembling an egg timer in shape) would tumble two enormous felt-covered dice, on a playing cycle of around 15 seconds. Players would bet on the outcome of the dice throw, e.g. double one, double two, etc. (I am not sure of the exact betting possibilities), to win anything from 2d to 12d.

I was always amazed at how the machine knew exactly which sides of the dice had been thrown, as there was no electrical connection between the dice and the floor of the rotating cage. There were of course six sides to decode for each die.

It could not have used magnets and reed switches, as there were too many possibilities to decode. I doubt that the system used infra-red, or radio transmission/reception, as this was the era of electro-mechanical machines full of relays and motors.

So, who can remember the machine, who made it, and above all HOW ON EARTH DID IT WORK?
rippyspennyarcade
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:18 pm
Reaction score: 0

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by rippyspennyarcade »

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. I also saw this machine in Great Yarmouth in 1969. A fascinating machine, and to be honest, unless you actually saw it, then it's really hard to imagine what this machine looked like. As to the payouts (which you described well) , around the same time STREETS made a machine called SPOT LUCK, the only difference being that each dice was kicked forward, as this machine was flat, compared to the egg timer shaped cage of the slot you mention. I obtained one of the worn dice from Spot Luck, and noticed there were holes in certain positions on the white SPOTS on the black dice!!! So this MUST have been for payout purposes.

Very pleased that someone other than ME remembers this GREAT machine. There was also one in Skegness, which is just up the road from me. Finally, the tough part is FINDING a picture of these LARGE electro mechanical machines. I remember many fantastic larger machines, but pictures are nearly impossible to come by. Let's HOPE that SOMEONE can come up with a picture of this machine...
Potless
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:07 pm
Reaction score: 0

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by Potless »

I obtained one of the worn dice from Spot Luck, and noticed there were holes in certain positions on the white SPOTS on the black dice!!! So this MUST have been for payout purposes.
Thanks for that, at least I now know I am not alone in remembering it, and that it wasn't just a dream!

It sounds as though the Spot Luck might work on the same principle - I wonder what the holes in the spots do?

Any Streets fanatics got any ideas?
pennymachines
Site Admin
Posts: 6638
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:12 am
Reaction score: 56
Location: The Black Country

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by pennymachines »

It may have worked along the same lines as the mechanical dice gambling machines of the mid '30s, like Mills Dice. These gave the illusion of freely throwing dice, but actually contained many identical dice showing different faces which were contained in compartments. When a set of two dice were thrown into view, they could spin in one plane only because a piece of glass prevented them from overturning. This gave the impression that they were freely thrown.

There is currently a large and sophisticated electromechanical dicer for sale on eBay U.S. called Seven Eleven. This uses the old Mills system (notice the dice loaded in the carousel below). Maybe this is the game you remember? The dice window is sort of egg-timer shaped.
dice1.jpg


Dice2.jpg

One of a kind Craps electromechanical dice machine made by J.J.Parker company of Las Vegas Nevada in 1964: serial # 96 out of 100 made. Have not heard of another one so I believe it might be the only one left. Holds 1600 quarters for payouts. Works and plays craps just like a casino but without the dealer. Made for small gambling parlours and bars. Has the same odds and and real dice that roll in the center under the glass. It is a real money maker. Built in cabinet 36 in. high 48 in. wide 24 in. deep, wgt.600 pounds. P.S. it plugs into standard 120 volt wall outlet.
A different trick was used on the electromechanical Western Equipment & Supply Company's Mysterious Eye (later Rockola's Black Magic). The dice remained in view all the time and were thrown freely. The machine then gently raised them to the top glass to read them. The dice were manufactured to be slightly shorter in their one-six dimension, so the position they landed in would determine how high contacts in the mechanism were raised.
Potless
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:07 pm
Reaction score: 0

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by Potless »

Thanks a lot for the information and photo - however, the machine I remember was a very tall unit, with a large vertical glass case containing the rotating dice cage, located in the centre of the machine. I would estimate the cage was about two foot long, each end being about a foot in diameter (pretty huge!). The hourglass-shaped cage was like the ones used in the old casino game of "Chuck-a-Luck", except there were only two dice instead of three.

The baffling thing is, there is no way the dimensions of the dice could have been measured as with the Western system, or even "forced" like the Mills version, because the dice remained in view at all times, and were not touched by anything except the base of the cage.

Thanks again for your help though, the descriptions of the machines are very interesting.
malcymal
Posts: 849
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:58 am
Reaction score: 0
Location: Bognor Regis, West Sussex, England

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by malcymal »

On my YouTube section, username malcymal, there is a comment posted from a bloke who said he used to work for Streets based at Eastbourne. (I posted a Streets Colorama video up there). I can't get access to YouTube at work right now but if you find his comment to my video he will have a YouTube user ID. Perhaps you could then email him for info! I shall try and steer him to this post when I have time - perhaps he can help and give us some valuable information in general about Streets.
rippyspennyarcade
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:18 pm
Reaction score: 0

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by rippyspennyarcade »

Hi Potless,
It was A NICE try by Pennymachines, but the machine we remember was nothing like that. The plastic dice were much LARGER than a standard dice; the egg timer shaped cage would tip up, dropping the 2 dice to the base, revealing the winning combination. I spent many hours watching and playing this machine. If only someone could come up with a photo!!! It really was a big attraction at the time. And I doubt we will EVER see anything like it again. Let's just HOPE that a photo can be found.
malcymal
Posts: 849
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:58 am
Reaction score: 0
Location: Bognor Regis, West Sussex, England

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by malcymal »

Bumped. Last post please see my previous post for possible contact (ex-employee of Streets).
cheeky
Posts: 631
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:19 pm
Reaction score: 2
Location: North East Essex

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by cheeky »

Potless wrote:It was a pretty massive unit, which featured several playing stations located around a huge glass case, in which a rotating dice cage (resembling an egg timer in shape) would tumble two enormous felt-covered dice, on a playing cycle of around 15 seconds. Players would bet on the outcome of the dice throw, e.g. double one, double two, etc. (I am not sure of the exact betting possibilities), to win anything from 2d to 12d.
I remember it well. It never seemed to work properly so I was always getting a refund at the desk but it was fascinating and brilliant when it worked. Actually, I'd forgotten all about it.

I have only ever seen the machine in Barons arcade in Great Yarmouth and knowing the owner's Grandma (Ruby), I could have bought it. Not sure it would have fitted in the car though!

Interestingly, it was still in the arcade in the late 1990s.

Now for the bad news. I really can't remember who made it and I never worked out how it functioned. Still, a fond memory and it would be great to see a photo again.

All the best!

Greg
Potless
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:07 pm
Reaction score: 0

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by Potless »

Amazing that it was still in the arcade in the '90s (I stopped going to the arcades in the mid '80s, so would not have seen it then) - it was probably on its last legs then, being an electromechanical machine. No wonder it kept going wrong!

I have a feeling that it could have been imported from the USA, as it was a high quality unit which had a feel of Las Vegas about it. Maybe it was a Bally product converted to UK coinage?
User avatar
operator bell
Posts: 580
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:30 am
Reaction score: 0
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by operator bell »

I saw one of these this morning, in the back of a warehouse covered in dust. It was a single player though. It had a pair of dice about an inch across in a wire cage on what looked like a vibrating base, with no visible means of reading them. Looking closely at the dice I saw a small hole in the middle of the spot on the '1' face - I couldn't see holes in the other faces. I opened the bottom of the cabinet and saw an electronics rack on the left that I didn't examine closely, and on the right a couple more electronic boards that were hand wired on matrix board. Considering the condition of this thing and that it was made in Chicago in the 1970s, I suspect it may be a prototype and may have been made at Clarence Schuyler's Games Inc, since that's where a lot of the other stuff in the warehouse originated. I snapped a photo with my phone but then accidentally sent it to my email at work, so I won't be able to share it until tomorrow. Hopefully the owner will let me poke around a bit more because I'd really like to know how it read the dice - and next time I'll take a proper camera.


Double or Nothing
Double or Nothing

pennymachines
Site Admin
Posts: 6638
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:12 am
Reaction score: 56
Location: The Black Country

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by pennymachines »

Hey OB, ain't you gonna buy that baby?

I've been mulling the question ever since Potless posted this topic - how to read freely thrown dice. Magnets concealed in the die and reed switches below is the best I can come up with. I think such a system might allow detection of several faces but not six sides. Rippy seems to have been on the right track with the little holes. But what do they do?
User avatar
operator bell
Posts: 580
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:30 am
Reaction score: 0
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by operator bell »

I don't have enough room for it. There are other more interesting things in that warehouse anyway. But I do intend to delve into the bottom of it and find out how it works.
Potless
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:07 pm
Reaction score: 0

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by Potless »

Thanks for posting the pic and information - it sounds as though that machine works on the same principle as the big one we remember - if you do have time to take a look inside, we would love to know what you find!
Potless
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:07 pm
Reaction score: 0

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by Potless »

I am reviving this old thread in case anyone has any further information about this huge old electromechanical dice machine - I have attached a (crude) drawing of how I remember it to be (bearing in mind that I was about 10 at the time I first saw it, so it seemed enormous to me!).

To recap, it was a 1960's betting game where punters could insert their pennies to win 2p, 4p, 6p, 8p or 10p, depending on the outcome of the throw of the two huge dice, which were inside a large metal cage. The cage rotated end over end to tumble the dice, which landed on the felt-covered base of the cage where the spots were read by the machine to determine payouts (as yet, nobody can figure out how the dice were read, because the machine was made long before computers were used in arcade machines, so it must have relied upon some simple electronic or mechanical system).

If anyone has any pics, a maker's name, or the name of the machine itself, that would be fantastic (and bring to an end years of fruitless searching on the internet for information).
Attachments
dicegame.gif
rippyspennyarcade
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:18 pm
Reaction score: 0

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by rippyspennyarcade »

Hi Potless, I was about 13 when I first saw this dice machine. Can I just say that your drawing of the machine is pretty much just as the machine looked. I can't remember the name of the machine either, but it was a very eye-catching, huge slot machine that really stood out in the arcade
Potless
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:07 pm
Reaction score: 0

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by Potless »

Good to know that others remember seeing it - it's amazing though, that such a large and impressive piece of machinery remains such a mystery! As I said previously, it had the look of a unit that might have been originally made for a Vegas venue - but strangely, even research on slot machine database sites has not determined its origins....
pennymachines
Site Admin
Posts: 6638
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 12:12 am
Reaction score: 56
Location: The Black Country

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by pennymachines »

I admire your persistence Potless. Who knows, maybe someone will come up with something... I think the lack of any online record rules out your suggestion that it might have been a Bally.

When Rippy mentioned the holes in the dice, it occurred to me that it might be measuring air pressure to detect their positions. This sounds a bit far-fetched, but I recall a machine in Joe Fletcher's arcade in Rednal which could detect the landing position of coins by sucking air through holes underneath the table. Obviously for it to work, the holes would have to go right through from the six to the one dot face. In this case ones and sixes would both have to be winners, as there's no way to distinguish between them.

However, your drawing pretty conclusively rules out any air suction trickery. In fact the distance between the free thrown dice and the main body of the machine seems to rule out just about any possible mechanism. As several members have anecdotal memories of the game, I have to conclude that it really did exist and either "worked by magic" or was a spin off from some advanced 1960s secret research project. The absence of any printed record, patent or photo suggests the technology is now suppressed. !ORBITAL!
dicey.jpg

1. Can anyone remember how the game was played? What outcomes were you betting on?
2. Was the dice shaker transparent from top to bottom?
User avatar
badpenny
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7211
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 12:41 pm
Reaction score: 25
Location: East Midlands

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by badpenny »

I recall it but not with the amount of detail that others do. I was never really fascinated by the big arcade machines, I probably suspected a man hiding inside.
Puzzling over how it was achieved, I warm towards your own theory of reed switches affected by magnets.
Alternatively it wouldn't be impossible to have different power magnets in each face moving rheostats ... different output potential could identify how the dice landed.

!PUZZLED!
Potless
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:07 pm
Reaction score: 0

Re: Who remembers this amazing dice gambling machine?

Post by Potless »

pennymachines wrote: 1. Can anyone remember how the game was played? What outcomes were you betting on?
2. Was the dice shaker transparent from top to bottom?
I seem to remember that the outcomes you bet on were 2 + 2, 3 + 3, 4 + 4, etc. but as always, memory may be playing tricks....

The shaker appeared to be totally transparent (a cage in fact) and the top and bottom ends were not excessively thick, so the sensing mechanism must have been extremely compact.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 30 guests