Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

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coin-op
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Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by coin-op »

A fellow collector, who is currently having some problem registering on this site, has asked me to post this question for him. Basically, he has just acquired a Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965. He knows nothing about the machine...not even quite how it works, and he is hoping that maybe someone can give him some information on it. He has a web page connected to his search for information which can be viewed at https://sites.google.com/site/goldcupdeluxe/
So, hopefully, someone can prove just what a remarkably helpful and informative site this is.
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gameswat
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by gameswat »

Pity about that damaged backglass as I like the artwork. You see a lot of console style slots in the US for sale at nothing due to damaged glass. Used to effect pinball sales too until they started making repro glasses and prices jumped. They even make new playfields for some pins these days!
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by treefrog »

This looks like a similar type of machine to the Keeney, with the projection fruit displays at the top.....An interesting coverage by Operator Bell on their history below from another thread

"The unique thing about the Red Arrow is it was the first ever machine to use the IEE Inline Readout projector displays to show fruit symbols. At that time in the USA (1960) electric flasher machines had been around a few years - they got round the federal Johnson Act, which prohibited machines, because the Act specifically said a slot machine had reels and these didn't, they had switches. The earlier flashers had symbols on the front glass that lit up from behind. These displays allowed a 3-in-line display again. They were extremely popular for six or seven years and used by Keeney (of course), Bally (which secretly owned Keeney) and Clarence Schuyler's Games Inc. Towards the end of the 1960s, when these companies had given them up, they were used by the up and coming electronic games makers such as Dale, Raven and the predecessor of IGT"

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pennymachines
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by pennymachines »

Dick Bueschel mentions this machine in Lemons, Cherries and Bell-Fruit-Gum:

The electronic uprights were briefly continued with GOLD CUP, DELUXE GOLD CUP and EXTRA STOUT, stretching into late 1966, after which a whole new line took their place. Uniquely British at first, and reaching into other European and international markets (but never the United States!), the newly formed Bally slot console combined the electromechanical MONEY HONEY format with an upright cabinet and backglass display.
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operator bell
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by operator bell »

A machine very dear to my heart, as it was on a Gold Cup that I won my first jackpot. I have looked many years for one, but didn't know there were any left alive. Most of them took a gasoline shower when consecutive holds and various other of its features were outlawed in the late 1960s.

I see this one has "random holds", which means it's been reworked. The glass is not original - this was a pre-decimalization 6d machine that paid jackpots of 300 and 500 coins, not 750p and 1250p. Actually it only paid out 100 coins, the balance being paid out in gold award tokens worth 100 credits each. The woman holding the Gold Cup on the original glass bore such a curiously strong resemblance to Princess Anne that it caused adverse comment in the papers.

I have actually seen a schematic diagram for this machine, though I don't possess one and the man who did has probably passed away now. I have schematics of Keeney machines, but they didn't have a reflex unit or the Golden Odds - the Gold Cup was quite a bit more complex and borrowed a lot of ideas from Bally Bingo pinball games.
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by thelad »

FYI. I have a working Bally Gold Cup. (not deluxe) It's been in my family since the late 1960s. Nothing wrong with the glass, just the glare from the flash. The various insert cards are in Danish. My brother bought it from an antique dealer in Toronto and I got it from my brother.
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brigham
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by brigham »

I have the two smaller types, 'Lolly Dolly' and 'Extra Stout'.
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operator bell
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by operator bell »

In the (about) ten years since this thread was last active, I came across a Bally 'Mazooma Bell", which is a close relative of the Gold Cup, and thought it might be helpful to share some pics of the innards. These Bally machines are completely different from the more familiar Keeney and Games flasher machines. Note the two long vertical cam units on the door - these will be instantly familiar to anyone who's ever seen inside a Bally Bingo pinball. The top one runs the fruits and odds lights, and the bottom one is the game timer, with the "features" disk (golden odds, etc) at the bottom. The bottom timer is very complicated. It has an intermittent motion device at the motor end, that changes the game timing for randomization, and the cams are in several groups with individual clutches to stop and release as required. The gray rectangular box at the top of the door is a reflex unit, used to tighten up the payback after a series of wins and loosen it when the machine is ahead, making the payback converge on a set percentage. On the Gold Cup it worked by changing the number of wild BAR symbols. Inside the main cabinet next to the hopper you can see a short tube and slide that paid out jackpot tokens for wins over 100.
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coppinpr
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by coppinpr »

We had one of these Gold Cup machines in our local snooker hall in the mid to late 60s and we loved it. The "modern" electronic reels seemed sharp and smooth, seeming to tumble along and, of course, they showed up well in the semi-dark snooker hall. :lol: (Punters wouldn't settle for such a small play window today). We had the same model as in the flyer with additional ways to lose a hard earned winner. The first non-mechanical machine I ever liked.

Very interesting to read about the adjusted payouts. Wouldn't have mattered if they had told us about that... we would still have played it. :HaHa:
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by ballymad »

Same machine, different switch stack.
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operator bell
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by operator bell »

coppinpr wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:48 pmThe "modern" electronic reels seemed sharp and smooth, seeming to tumble along
There was a clever pattern to it. Each display had two sets of symbols - a real set and a teaser set. The teaser set had more jackpot symbols on it to give the illusion of liberality, but it would never stop on them, only on the real set. The change from one symbol to the next as the game ran was in four stages - first the real, then both the real and the teaser at the same time, then just the teaser, then briefly dark. Persistence of vision left the player mainly remembering the teaser symbols, while the "tumble" effect came from seeing the (123-)(123-)(123-) sequence constantly repeated about eight times a second, too fast to make out but not too fast for the brain to notice the pattern.
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by mikef »

Good day to you all
I picked up a Bally Gold Cup a month or so back and I'm having problems getting the pantoscope to light.
All 3 windows are out and was hoping someone could point me in the right direction.......
Not sure if they are supposed to be on all the time or activated once money is put in ?
Any help greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Mike
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badpenny
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by badpenny »

Do they activate once money is put in ?
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operator bell
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by operator bell »

They are always on in normal use, but I THINK they may turn off in Tilt - similar Games and Keeney machines do. The machines turn on in the Tilt state, and come out of it on the first play. It will be one of the relays on the back door, which will latch on if you close it manually. If you're really lucky it will have a notice on it saying TILT RELAY.
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by mikef »

Thank you for your input guys.
The pantoscope lights remain off when money is put in but the machine seems to operate correctly to the point it pays out.
I have checked for the tilt switch and it has what is called a anti cheat relay which is not latched on and the relay contacts are in the correct open and shut positions.
It has 3 flasher units that controls what fruit shapes you see, so I am looking for maybe a common switch to turn on the lights....
livinginthepast
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by livinginthepast »

Going from memory.... The anti cheat relay should pull in on the first play cycle and stay energised through its holding contacts... Have you got a circuit diagram?
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operator bell
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by operator bell »

The "common switch to turn on the lights" that you seek is a contact on the Anti Cheat relay, which should be energized at all times unless its return circuit is broken by the slam switch. The other function of the Anti Cheat relay is to connect power to the Win Relay. If the A-C relay won't stay pulled in but it still pays out, your machine has been fiddled with, which I can see it has anyway because it doesn't have a replay counter, it doesn't have a "golden odds" pay panel, and the payouts are given in "p" which weren't invented until years after that machine was made. It probably also has "random hold". In that case it's anyone's guess, but I'll bet it's still the A-C relay.

The Gold Cup is built mainly of Bally Bingo parts, so I offer you a caution. Most of the circuitry is 50VAC, but the motors that drive the tall vertical stacks are usually 110V. The 110V is taken off a tap on the transformer primary, so it is in all but name the 240V mains, and that voltage is present on some of the open leaf relay contacts. Be careful poking about.
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by mikef »

Thanks again or all the help I'm receiving. !!THUMBSX2!!
The anti cheat relay is energizing once the first play after power on and remains on after that.
If I activate one of the slam switches it de energizes....
If I win, the win relay is energized, so looks like they are all ok.
I have noticed that the tilt light, feature lights also do not work when they are supposed to. !PUZZLED!
I have a manual for the machine but no circuit diagram, so if anyone has one they could copy over that would help.
I have worked on pinball machines, so was surprised to see all the pinball technology packed into the back of the gold cup... but no need to worry I always where my wellies and rubber gloves when poking around on these beasts. :!:
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operator bell
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by operator bell »

I regret I can't help you with a circuit diagram. I've got diagrams for similar Keeney and Games machines but they are much simpler - they don't rely on Bingo technology. It seems to me it wouldn't be too difficult to trace the wiring. If the Tilt light doesn't light and NEITHER do the display lights, that's your clue. 6V must not be reaching the Anti Cheat relay, since opposite sides of the same contact supply either-or. The contact supplying the Tilt light won't go to any other place than the light, so you should be able to identify it from the wire colors at each end. Then you know the moving contact, and can trace that back to the transformer. Perhaps the (what I call) "operating" 6V lights have a different fuse from the 6V general illumination lights behind the glass.
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Re: Bally Gold Cup Deluxe circa 1965

Post by livinginthepast »

Check the fuse holders... they are made of plated brass and the arms that hold the fuse lose tension.
When you try to bend the arms back in again they break and fall off. Happens on all the old Ballys!
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