Sega - But which one???

[toibs]

Have just picked up a Sega bandit - well it looks to be a Sega.... seems to resemble a Diamond star (without the top placard - rats will have to find/make one! ) however it also doesn't look like a Diamond star.

Can any of you experts shed any light on this please?

Thanks
Paul

[badpenny]

Hi Paul .....

It's probably one of the numerous Sega clones that were being turned out in the 60s. What helps to understand a machine's origins are moulding details/numbers/letters taht appear not only on the the inside of the case but also on the mechanism as that too will have had a history.

So get delving, snap some pictures, make a list, steer clear of Barley Wine, don't put "model parts" into Google" but do get back to us and and add to everyone's education.

ps ... "taht" is an interesting word that first became popular when I first owned a keyboard.

[andydotp]

That is what 'smellcheck' is for....just before you press sand.

Oh, off topic again. Looks SEGA ;;

[treefrog]

As BP stated, definitely not Sega, even though it may have a Sega mechanism (but may also be Mills or other)... As far as I am aware, all Segas have a serial number on paper on the inside right, a Sega badge on the rear base (usually fallen off) and all the parts are stamped with Sega serial numbers.

I reckon 50% of these Lite-Up models we see for sale are variants. Usually without the Sega stamp on the front casing, different chrome strips on the side and a variety of internals....

Also I believe Mills actually made very early versions of these, possibly before Sega.

Also not all the parts are the same, so the belly jackpot glass is different in size to the Sega, as well the as the rear door, rear top hood etc., etc. I have loads of bits and spares that do not interchange.

[toibs]

I'll remember to give you a shout then, because I believe that this doesn't have a back door, since it was broken when the previous owner got it ;)

I physically go to pick it up on the weekend so will let you all know the specifics when I get it

Paul.

[malcymal]

Similar post asked by another as to the origins - I'd say it is once again a Berkeley (British). I had one similar: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=890. As noted by another poster, many parts on this are not compatible with a Sega lightup. Be very careful if buying spares that are from a genuine Sega. Similarly, if you remove the Shefras and put in an escalator from a Sega light up, it won't work with the layout of the mech; it's completely different. Very common but they still attract interest. Mine fetched £350 and went off to France on ebay.

[toibs]

Thanks Malcymal - I would agree - the guy said something about moving a pin to change between 1np and old currency.... which would tie in with what you are saying...

All being well, picking this up early tomorrow morning (better late than never!), so will post pics when I get back and get it on the bench

Paul

[malcymal]

You can run it on new 5p coin but you need to adjust the Shefras. You will need to take Shefras coin entry off, split it in two by removing bolts, give it a good clean, then with some fine micro washers over the bolts, put mech back together so the width has been changed enough to take in 5p coin. You will also have to adjust the initial coin entry plate before coin gets to the Shefras (normally a bolt you wind in to increase the entry width). Then adjust your coin detector pin for the new width of coin. If coin slides are already changed to 1p and payout correct, there shouldn't be a problem with payout. Otherwise, if they are 6d slides, coins will payout but will be short of the awards shown.
Malc.

[toibs]

Picked up this morning. Not over impressed since it looks at first glance like the reels don't match (and the reel decals are in awful condition).

Pics to follow in an hour or two...

Paul.

[malcymal]

It might have the right reels. I note the top box is missing and on here a tic tac toe win would be displayed, e.g. 3 * £ sign in any positiion pays 10, say... or 3 * 777 pays 10. In going forward, when buying machines on ebay, always ask seller for additional photos cause very rarely do they look as good in the flesh as they do in the picture. Should be an easy paint job, but if chrome is shot then a lot of expense ahead.

[coppinpr]

As long as you didn't pay too much for this machine I wouldn't be down on it. They are great machines to restore and easy to paint. The missing top box is a problem but even Sega made an all mechanical version without a top box and lights. As long as it has a rear bonnet and back door are there, then costs will be small. The cash tray is the only real chrome. If it won't clean, then a spay will do a fair job at a pinch. I'm just starting on a "Lucky Devil" which I think is the same make. Any stamps on the castings inside? Mine has JCW stamped everywhere. What makes you think the reels are wrong? Also if it has a Mills mech (it might not) then a full escalator might fit OK. My Lucky Devil has a standard escalator that fits perfect. Here is what was a dark blue Sega that I re-painted and it looks great.
Bonanza Star...Reborn

[coppinpr]

Here is a photo of the non-electric Sega if you decide to go in that direction.

150px-Segastarlet_01.jpg (7.96 KiB) Viewed 3119 times

[toibs]

Lol - sorry for no pics so far - it's in the boot of the car, and it's throwing it down outside, so decided to wait until tomorrow when I can tiptoe through the raindrops. Will take some pics in the office tomorrow

It's got the bonnet - just no rear door - cash box is there. Someone has resprayed the baseplate a nasty silver, however they've actually done quite a good job, which is a shame!

As far as I can tell it's definately along the lines that Malcymal was saying - there's a pin in the top of the Shefras thingie that allows you to change coins accepted - must work out how that operates...

I will say that the reel Glass is interesting - it's around 1cm thick, and all on the outside of the unit as far as I can tell, as opposed to inside....

No electrickery at all as far as I can see - just pure mechanics! Can't wait to get stuck into it now!!!

Ooh - just seen your pic - have you a larger one to go by at all??
Edit - s'ok - google worked a treat

Cheers
Paul

[coppinpr]

The glass fits from the inside. It will have cushion tape between it and the reel plate. It will be rotten. Remove it and the glass will clean up like new once it's out of the machine. Don't drop it as you remove the reel plate, lol... No need to remove the front casting to paint but you must remove ALL the payout plates, coin entry, glass etc. and mask the edges and coin tray well. Use Green Frog masking tape.

[toibs]

Ooh this is gonna be a lot of work for my first proper rebuild....

Front with Thick glass....

Cash box..

Dodgy reels...

Overlays..

Soldered holes = changed payouts....

"serial" on base of mech

part number on reel bar...

Escalator - I thought you were supposed to be able to see the coins from the front through the glass.. this is mounted on the inside of the unit itself, and not part of the pull-out mech...

Anyone any advice or words of wisdom?? (other than "bin it and get another one"!!!) or maybe clues as to where to start!!!

[treefrog]

It depends on what you want to achieve. If you are just going to enjoy the pleasure in trying to improve or make something look nice for the experience, then go for it, but there are many machines like this out there (I have enough of them) and will never command a high value.

The important thing is if it works, then are you just trying to make it pretty, create a nice paint job etc. Problem with restorations, we all want things to be perfect and it looks like a number of things need addressing on your machine. To be honest, the reel tins look knackered/battered and are difficult to recover. If they run true, probably best left alone. The strips have had a hard life and various guises. The crowns/numbers are non original and may have been a special feature added by an operator, e.g. a criss cross feature as I can see this on the payout holes. This is a Sega mechanism, with the SG stamp on the rear bar. It is probably a Shefras escalator, so no horizontal coin display.

I would either have fun prettying it up without spending too much money or as you say move on....

[badpenny]

Hi Paul ....

It's a Sega mech.

The thick plate of glass is exactly correct.

The escalator doesn't show the coins because it is a Shefras replacement, they rely on gravity so dip down before the end of the window. On the Mills/Sega bandits the escalator is attached to the case not the mech unlike Jennings, Pace, Aristocrat Nevada, Watling (and probably others I can't think of) which are part of the mechanism. Same applies for the Jackpot Bank.

The reels look original with additional single elements stuck over. The blanked out wins on the discs are likely to match up with the changes to the reels.

I've possibly missed it, but has it a JP as the mech is geared up for the overflow to feed one?
However I can't see a JP trip or reset gubbins with the slides. Also it suspiciously as a flexy tube hidden away in the cashbox which would suggest it should be rammed on the end of the coin overflow to feed them down through the hole in the baseplate to the same box it is currently residing in.

As was previously mentioned.
Good machine to lose your virginity on and learn from.
If you paid between £100 -£200 for it, smartening it up should get you a modest profit with a following wind ......... maybe.
If you wanted to put a "move along the bus please" escalator, new paper reels, and chroming, the additional costs will only reflect the same in the value ..... probably. But you get the experience.

Top boxes come along rarely (has the top casting been drilled to take one?) but they are easy to make with a sheet metal bender from Machine Mart and a visit to B&Q's ironmongery aisle for a square of thin guage aluminium or galvanised.

Depends on how far you want to go with it. We've all been there.

Edited once upon a time 'cos I had to answer a knock at the door and explain to a smartly dressed innocent looking young man that I would only come to his Happy Clappy tambourine bashing event if he in exchange would attend my ram slaughtering, blood drinking celebration in Tesco's car park ....... disappointingly he declined.

[coppinpr]

I think you have a good chance to learn from this machine and turn a profit if you got it for less than £140. These are great to lean from. There is a load of info on the forum about doing these machines up and I and others will be only too pleased to help. Does the mech work? If it does, then a good clean and lube will teach you a lot and put it back in good working order. Is there a jackpot unit? Can't see from the photos. You can make new reel strips or ask on the forum. I think Mark is selling these (without the additional symbols). You will have great fun just stripping it down. Don't let others put you off by saying it's not worth it: it's always worth saving a machine from the scrap yard. That's the part of this hobby I like!!

[treefrog]

There are two learning experiences here, one for you playing around with a machine you can learn from technically, which is great and good fun and secondly, how to buy a good machine or bad one. I hate to say it, but it is true, not all the horrors of a machine's past has occurred during the life span in operator hands, but more so in the hands of so-called collectors who pillage and rob and shift on machines constantly. You will see the same machine in various guises appearing again and again... The biggest lesson learnt is what to look for when buying... often learnt through mistakes and I still make them and recently did so again... People often then shift those mistakes onto another novice collector. I am afraid it is all part of the experience... If you survive the journey, you will look back like you did with some of the bad buy cards you made when you were younger.

If you need help with spares, I may be able to help, even have a box full of top boxes somewhere.

[toibs]

Firstly, Thank you to all of you for your honest and realistic comments, and also to offers of help and assistance.

I picked this up for keeps - and to learn. I originally picked up an Aristocrat for this job however (fortunately or unfortunately) whilst the cab needed work (and I know this), the internals both matched and was in nothing short of excellent working condition!!! (that's staying for the kids to play on!!)

So (and I'm still waiting to get it chromed - any recommendations in the Midlands??) I thought I'd look about.... have since picked up an EM, one Riviera EM in reasonable condition, and another Riveria in poor condition.

I can do cab re-painting to a good standard now, however it's the mechanicals, and what you can/can't do. I know roughly the process of how they work.... It's (I guess) the generic fear of disassembling and re-assembling, what oil/greases you can use and where, and also where to get bits they you break/found broken! I picked up this DVD (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.monro ... lotdvd.htm which was good and gave me an insight, however left me wanting more!!!

Let's look at it this way - I'm 41 this year.... I need something to keep me busy when I retire in 29+ years ;)

Many thanks again to you all
Paul.