Ebay & Gambling Commission

[ballymad]

Hi chaps, need your help.
I'm trying to flog a Bell Fruit club machine but ebay keep removing the listing.
What is the best way to word it? Any suggestions or is there anywhere else we can use?

[coin-op]

It seems that most listings seem to say something along the lines of "To comply with ebay rules the payout has been disabled, this machine is sold for home use only". This seems to work for most listings. No doubt others may have thoughts on variations of this wording.

[treefrog]

Ebay have been very strict lately and seem to be quickly be removing offenders who do not put the pointless statements in to avoid this. I have even seen amusement only allwins been removed. The phrase "disabled payout" is key....

[coppinpr]

I've had two listings removed even with the disclaimer. I suspect the removals are computer generated using the computer to ID certain key words (they clearly don't read the descriptions). I put my latest add on using the words (fruit machine) in the title and it was removed. I re-listed it simply changing the title and it's gone on fine. Also when placing the ad, there is a list of attributes for the machine: never tick the one that says 'machine with award'. That will kill it stone dead. I've seen some great comments on the listings, my favorite is 'conforms to Ebay rules (I lie a lot)' I usually put in the disclaimer then say, 'If you don't understand this, please send me a private question' which, of course, answers the question in itself.

[raj]

I never use any of the tick boxes, they are probably the ones that the ebay bot picks up, but put in the usual 'payout disconnected' phrase and that should do the job.

[raj]

Topic merged - Site Admin.

Good old ebay have been at it again, bids on bandits now seem to attract a long warning page quoting text from the Gaming people about selling such items. They claim that even if the item has the payouts disconnected etc, it still breaches the guidelines & they may report sellers to the Gambling Commision. Having read the licencing options, they require £25 for each machine sold, or an operators licence at over £3k per year.

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/ga ... hines.aspx

Policy overview

The sale, supply, installation, adaption, maintenance and repair of a gaming machine (also known as fruit or slot machine) is prohibited unless the appropriate licence or permit has first been obtained from the Gambling Commission. Under the Gambling Act 2005, a gaming machine is defined as a machine which is designed or adapted for use by individuals to gamble (whether or not it can also be used for other purposes). Therefore, eBay will generally not permit the listing of gaming machines on the site. There are exceptions to this general prohibition listed below.

Make sure your listing follows these guidelines. Failure to comply with this policy may lead to the removal of your listing(s) and suspension of your eBay privileges. The Gambling Commission may also investigate you for offences under the Gambling Act 2005 relating to the sale and supply of gaming machines.

eBay cooperates with law enforcement agencies including the Gambling Commission and will assist any agency investigating the illegal sale of gaming (slot/fruit) machines upon verified request.
What are the guidelines?

Restricted

Where a current licence or permit has been issued to the seller by the Gambling Commission. The holder of a current licence or permit must clearly state that they are licensed by the Gambling Commission and prominently display their licence or permit number at the top of the individual listing.

Where there is no opportunity to win a prize, including for example, machines that are non functional (display purposes only). Sellers should note that removing or disconnecting a component(s) of a functional gaming machine during the period that it is for sale does not render the machine non-functional for the purpose of this exemption.

If you collect gaming machines as a private individual and you want to sell, repair or upgrade a single machine you need a single machine permit from the Gambling Commission.

I understand the need for control of the big money machines, but fail to comprehend the issues behind selling old coinage machines.
Has anyone had any approaches from the Gambling Commision regarding sales of machines at all?

[badpenny]

I understand the need for control of the big money machines, but fail to comprehend the issues behind selling old coinage machines.
Has anyone had any approaches from the Gambling Commision regarding sales of machines at all?

Yes, many of us have. That's why Jerry and I run the Coventry Auction so strictly.

This question does surface on this board regularly I've put on a link below. In the meantime it's sufficient to say ......
+ It's not illegal to own or buy one
+ It is illegal to sell one without the necessary expensive approval from the Gambling Commission, and it's not just bandits.
+ They do not differentiate between contemporary micro chipped AWP and 100 year old Wooden boxes with brass fittings and ball bearings.
+ The law is an ass
+ The Commission and Police will raid an illegal sale of machines and prosecute as well as confiscate if they so feel
+ The statements vendors put in their ebay auctions about payments disconnected in order to comply are meaningless and of no value so far as The Gambling Commission would be concerned.
+ The Coventry auction is operated legally.

Now if you want to wade your way through the lengthy tome that was generated the last time we discussed this ...........
When is it illegal to sell a slot machine?
Drink deeply and enjoy.

[ballymad]

Topic merged - Site Admin

OK, like many I have had trouble listing machines for sale because I don't hold a licence.
I have read the above sticky about this and the cost of having one at just under £6000 so I thought I would write to my M.P. who is also the Minister for Education or Universities, it's one or the other!!!!
Well, I put to him the points mentioned in the sticky and have received a reply from him. I know that all questions asked are researched before an answer is given. Well, his answer was that if you have an annual gross sale of less than £550,000 you need only pay £997; a vast difference. Even so, I still think you should be exempt if the machines are 35 years old or more.

[raj]

Well done Ballymad, all I need now is a spare thou to find. I wonder if my customers will pay more knowing I have a current annual licence (and also for them when they sell on!)

[operator bell]

Since your MP took the trouble to reply, ballymad, perhaps you could write to him again to see if he'd be interested in sponsoring a private member's bill to permit the free sale of coin operated machines over a certain age by persons without a gaming license. I am sure there are people reading this forum who would be delighted to help draft it for him.

The question should not be "Why", it should be "Why Not".