Ebay & Gambling Commission

Discuss our on-site auctions and other slot machine auctions.
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ballymad
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Ebay & Gambling Commission

Post by ballymad »

Hi chaps, need your help.
I'm trying to flog a Bell Fruit club machine but ebay keep removing the listing.
What is the best way to word it? Any suggestions or is there anywhere else we can use?
coin-op
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Re: E BAY

Post by coin-op »

It seems that most listings seem to say something along the lines of "To comply with ebay rules the payout has been disabled, this machine is sold for home use only". This seems to work for most listings. No doubt others may have thoughts on variations of this wording.
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treefrog
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Re: E BAY

Post by treefrog »

Ebay have been very strict lately and seem to be quickly be removing offenders who do not put the pointless statements in to avoid this. I have even seen amusement only allwins been removed. The phrase "disabled payout" is key....
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coppinpr
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Ebay listing restrictions

Post by coppinpr »

I've had two listings removed even with the disclaimer. I suspect the removals are computer generated using the computer to ID certain key words (they clearly don't read the descriptions). I put my latest add on using the words (fruit machine) in the title and it was removed. I re-listed it simply changing the title and it's gone on fine. Also when placing the ad, there is a list of attributes for the machine: never tick the one that says 'machine with award'. That will kill it stone dead. I've seen some great comments on the listings, my favorite is 'conforms to Ebay rules (I lie a lot)' :!?!: I usually put in the disclaimer then say, 'If you don't understand this, please send me a private question' which, of course, answers the question in itself.
raj
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Re: Ebay listing restrictions

Post by raj »

I never use any of the tick boxes, they are probably the ones that the ebay bot picks up, but put in the usual 'payout disconnected' phrase and that should do the job.
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Ebay & Gambling Licence

Post by raj »

Topic merged - Site Admin.

Good old ebay have been at it again, bids on bandits now seem to attract a long warning page quoting text from the Gaming people about selling such items. They claim that even if the item has the payouts disconnected etc, it still breaches the guidelines & they may report sellers to the Gambling Commision. Having read the licencing options, they require £25 for each machine sold, or an operators licence at over £3k per year. :shock:

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/ga ... hines.aspx

Policy overview

The sale, supply, installation, adaption, maintenance and repair of a gaming machine (also known as fruit or slot machine) is prohibited unless the appropriate licence or permit has first been obtained from the Gambling Commission. Under the Gambling Act 2005, a gaming machine is defined as a machine which is designed or adapted for use by individuals to gamble (whether or not it can also be used for other purposes). Therefore, eBay will generally not permit the listing of gaming machines on the site. There are exceptions to this general prohibition listed below.

Make sure your listing follows these guidelines. Failure to comply with this policy may lead to the removal of your listing(s) and suspension of your eBay privileges. The Gambling Commission may also investigate you for offences under the Gambling Act 2005 relating to the sale and supply of gaming machines.

eBay cooperates with law enforcement agencies including the Gambling Commission and will assist any agency investigating the illegal sale of gaming (slot/fruit) machines upon verified request.
What are the guidelines?

Restricted

Where a current licence or permit has been issued to the seller by the Gambling Commission. The holder of a current licence or permit must clearly state that they are licensed by the Gambling Commission and prominently display their licence or permit number at the top of the individual listing.

Where there is no opportunity to win a prize, including for example, machines that are non functional (display purposes only). Sellers should note that removing or disconnecting a component(s) of a functional gaming machine during the period that it is for sale does not render the machine non-functional for the purpose of this exemption.

If you collect gaming machines as a private individual and you want to sell, repair or upgrade a single machine you need a single machine permit from the Gambling Commission.


I understand the need for control of the big money machines, but fail to comprehend the issues behind selling old coinage machines.
Has anyone had any approaches from the Gambling Commision regarding sales of machines at all? :burp:
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badpenny
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Re: EBAY & GAMBLING LICENCE

Post by badpenny »

swaledaleslots wrote: I understand the need for control of the big money machines, but fail to comprehend the issues behind selling old coinage machines.
Has anyone had any approaches from the Gambling Commision regarding sales of machines at all? :burp:
Yes, many of us have. That's why Jerry and I run the Coventry Auction so strictly.

This question does surface on this board regularly I've put on a link below. In the meantime it's sufficient to say ......
+ It's not illegal to own or buy one
+ It is illegal to sell one without the necessary expensive approval from the Gambling Commission, and it's not just bandits.
+ They do not differentiate between contemporary micro chipped AWP and 100 year old Wooden boxes with brass fittings and ball bearings.
+ The law is an ass
+ The Commission and Police will raid an illegal sale of machines and prosecute as well as confiscate if they so feel
+ The statements vendors put in their ebay auctions about payments disconnected in order to comply are meaningless and of no value so far as The Gambling Commission would be concerned.
+ The Coventry auction is operated legally.

Now if you want to wade your way through the lengthy tome that was generated the last time we discussed this ...........
When is it illegal to sell a slot machine?
Drink deeply and enjoy.
ballymad
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licence

Post by ballymad »

Topic merged - Site Admin

OK, like many I have had trouble listing machines for sale because I don't hold a licence.
I have read the above sticky about this and the cost of having one at just under £6000 so I thought I would write to my M.P. who is also the Minister for Education or Universities, it's one or the other!!!!
Well, I put to him the points mentioned in the sticky and have received a reply from him. I know that all questions asked are researched before an answer is given. Well, his answer was that if you have an annual gross sale of less than £550,000 you need only pay £997; a vast difference. Even so, I still think you should be exempt if the machines are 35 years old or more.
raj
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Re: Ebay & Gambling Licence

Post by raj »

Well done Ballymad, all I need now is a spare thou to find. :shock: I wonder if my customers will pay more knowing I have a current annual licence (and also for them when they sell on!) !PUZZLED!
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operator bell
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Re: Ebay & Gambling Licence

Post by operator bell »

Since your MP took the trouble to reply, ballymad, perhaps you could write to him again to see if he'd be interested in sponsoring a private member's bill to permit the free sale of coin operated machines over a certain age by persons without a gaming license. I am sure there are people reading this forum who would be delighted to help draft it for him.

The question should not be "Why", it should be "Why Not".
monk
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Re: Ebay & Gambling Licence

Post by monk »

An exemption over 25 years would be nice, then the machines I have nostalgic attachment to would be included (heathen I know :D but had no say in the matter, didn't arrive until '74).
(Very interested in all the older gear too, hence ending up here :) but memories were of the tuppenny, fivepenny and tenpenny floor-standing machines of the late-70s/early 80s).

I'm suprised that the rare breed of folk with the passion to devote endless hours to the presevation of our arcade heritage continue to be 'persecuted', for want of a better word - celebrating the outstanding design, materials and workmanship employed in the production of the old relics should be encouraged, not hampered!
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badpenny
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Re: Ebay & Gambling Licence

Post by badpenny »

It would mean a change in the law which would mean time in Parliament, when there are many more urgent matters. It would not help the MP who championed it in the eyes of those who voted him there ................ in fact it may make those who weren't enthusiasts critical of him and what he was spending his time on. :NBG:
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coppinpr
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A way to stop ebay dropping machine adds

Post by coppinpr »

Topic merged - Site Admin

This is very simple and I can't yet be sure it works but it has worked for me for some time now.
Find an ad that has been accepted with no problems (either one of your own or one that you see on ebay) and save it as a template. Change anything you like except the listing areas, the coin info, the payout info, the machine type tick boxes and the disclaimer and (I think) it will always run. The bounced ads are clearly computer generated, so if it passes it once it should pass it every time. It has for me for the best part of a year. Having said that, my next ad has no chance now :oops:
ballymad
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Re: Ebay & Gambling Licence

Post by ballymad »

After a few more inquiries, this time to the Gambling Commission and then the Culture Minister,
you can buy a single machine licence for £25.
Well, not bad but lots of form-filling and a pain in the rear if you own lots of slots.
So we will continue and see if we can get a members' bill because it's down to the Minister for Art, Culture and Sport as to any changes in the law and they have no plans to change it.
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treefrog
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Ebay Rules

Post by treefrog »

Topic merged - Site Admin

Don't know if this has always been there and I have never come across it (unlikely as I have bought many machines on ebay), but tonight for the first time when bidding on a machine, I got an intermediate warning sign about bidding on a machine sold by someone without a license... Even if the usual words are in text, "disabled payout" and all that...

Has anyone else experienced this? I wonder if Ebay are closing down on the slot world to us collectors :tut .

One of the links on the page points you to the Gaming Commission and the other to Ebay's rules, which state:
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/s ... hines.html
Where a current licence or permit has been issued to the seller by the Gambling Commission. The holder of a current licence or permit must clearly state that they are licensed by the Gambling Commission and prominently display their licence or permit number at the top of the individual listing.

Where there is no opportunity to win a prize (for example: machines that are non functional). Sellers should note that removing or disconnecting a component(s) of a functional gaming machine in order to sell it on eBay does not render the machine non-functional for the purpose of this exemption.

If you collect gaming machines as a private individual and you want to sell, supply, repair, install or maintain a single machine you need a single machine permit from the Gambling Commission.
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badpenny
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Re: Ebay Rules

Post by badpenny »

tree-frog wrote:Has anyone else experienced this? I wonder if Ebay are closing down on the slot world to us collectors :tut .
More likely the Gaming Commission squeezing Ebay by making them responsible for what auctions they host.
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treefrog
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Re: Ebay Rules

Post by treefrog »

What is silly though, when you click on the link to the gaming commision site is states:
Gaming machines (fruit machines, slot machines) at home
You can own gaming machines for your private use, as long as you are the only person who plays them.
Gaming machines (fruit machines, slot machines) at home
toibs
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Re: Ebay Rules

Post by toibs »

Never seen that working before, so must be new, however I suspect the Gaming Board are clamping down.

I actually called the Gaming Board about this a few weeks ago, after a few run-ins with the jokers called Ebay.

Basically the rules seem to be :

If you have something to sell, if it takes any types of UK coins, either Legal tender or Non-legal tender (6d, Threepences etc) then to sell you have to have a licence for THAT MACHINE. £25. That's it - end of... Oh unless you have a pinball Machine, where it doesn't apply.

If you dont want to pay £25 for each machine, then you have to have an OP's licence at £££, which will cover you for all machines you may have.

Almost like ebay's monopoly, ridiculous...... just like Ebay's rules....

Ahh well.. there's always Gumtree (also an Ebay company but without the crippling rules....)
toibs
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Re: Ebay Rules

Post by toibs »

tree-frog wrote:What is silly though, when you click on the link to the Gaming Commission site is states:
Gaming machines (fruit machines, slot machines) at home
You can own gaming machines for your private use, as long as you are the only person who plays them.[/quote}
That's OK if you never want to sell them.... ;)
spintop
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Re: Ebay Rules

Post by spintop »

Yes, ebay are cracking down on the selling of slot machines. I have been told there will be changes. You will need to display a valid gaming licence number with your listing details. If you have'nt got one, you won't be able to sell simple as that. Don't know how much they cost, so any ideas what website we can start selling machines on??
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