When you gotta go...

American, British, French or German? We want to know about it.
roger
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When you gotta go...

Post by roger »

Current post,"Collector Connector Sales", started life with a discussion of Steve Hunt Auctions...Somehow, the post switched the focus to toilet paper.
Similarly, some time ago, there was an informative posting on "Essex Flat Racer". This post ended up with a discussion of Australian Flush Toilets.
This fixation on toilets and toilet paper reminds me of the time when public toilets were fitted with coin-operated doors and coin-operated toilet paper dispensers.

It was a difficult time for people without the proper change or those suffering from diarrhea....... !!ESCAPE!!

ROGER
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moonriver
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by moonriver »

Do you ever read any responses to your posts Roger? ...........Just wondering
livinginthepast
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by livinginthepast »

I remember coin operated toilet doors ...but not the coin operated paper dispensers...surely not
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coppinpr
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by coppinpr »

What i remember about those toilet doors was the fierce spring on them, they were taking no chances on someone slipping in for free at the changeover '!'
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alan57
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by alan57 »

I bought this unused penny lock many moons ago with the intention of fitting onto the downstairs loo door, but never got round to fitting it.
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s-l1600-2.jpg
pennymachines
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by pennymachines »

alan57 wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:16 pm I bought this unused penny lock many moons ago with the intention of fitting onto the downstairs loo door, but never got round to fitting it.
That's a very nice example, and so unusual to find in unused condition.
roger wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:50 pm This fixation on toilets and toilet paper reminds me of the time when public toilets were fitted with coin-operated doors and coin-operated toilet paper dispensers.
It's a subject we've neglected...
livinginthepast wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:01 am I remember coin operated toilet doors ...but not the coin operated paper dispensers...surely not
Oh yes... In America at least...

1 cent toilet paper dispenser
1 cent toilet paper dispenser


Toilet paper dispenser
Toilet paper dispenser

The earliest pay toilet ever recorded was installed in 74 AD in Rome. Emperor Titus installed these at bathrooms and bathhouses in order to ease the financial burden resulting from the several wars that Rome was involved in. The toilets, however, did not last. An outcry from Roman citizens and protests caused these toilets to eventually be uninstalled. However new more luxurious pay to use toilets were placed next to common ones in order to make up for their losses.
A Brief History of Pay Toilets in the US

The English stage magician, John Nevil Maskelyne patented the first 'modern' coin-operated toilet door lock in 1894: GB189420360

Patent GB189420360
Patent GB189420360


Maskelyne's Pat coin-op toilet door lock
Maskelyne's Pat coin-op toilet door lock


1911 Maskelyne toilet door lock patent
1911 Maskelyne toilet door lock patent


Advert for Maskelyne's patent coin-operated door lock
Advert for Maskelyne's patent coin-operated door lock


Maskelyne Patent toilet door lock
Maskelyne Patent toilet door lock

'ETAS' is Enoch Tonks & Sons, Temple Works, Temple Bar, Willenhall (locksmith capital of UK).
'CERO' was made by William Tonks, Star Works, 201 Moseley Street, Birmingham.

William Tonks 'Cero' advert
William Tonks 'Cero' advert

See also: PWA toilet locks flyer
LocWil Paper Hand Towels Vending Machine



Some classics:
Attachments
Howard's Patent 15876/12
Howard's Patent 15876/12
Alfred Brown & Co., Birmingham
Alfred Brown & Co., Birmingham
Parker, Winder & Achurch Ltd., Birmingham
Parker, Winder & Achurch Ltd., Birmingham
Lockerbie & Wilkinson Ltd., Tipton
Lockerbie & Wilkinson Ltd., Tipton
Lockerbie & Wilkinson Ltd., Tipton
Lockerbie & Wilkinson Ltd., Tipton
Gibbons, Wolverhampton
Gibbons, Wolverhampton
ETAS No. 5
ETAS No. 5
ETAS No. 11
ETAS No. 11
CERO
CERO
roger
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by roger »

Moonriver asked if I ever respond to questions on my posts.....in short, I'm not into modern technology. I still own a black and white TV.......... Never owned a cell phone, or one of those things called zooming, and CERTAINLY, not one of those cars that drives itself.
Frequently, my posts get all screwed up and Mr P and our moderators have to come to the rescue. In summary, as to where my posts ended up......... Your guess is as good as mine...........
ROGER
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moonriver
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by moonriver »

Well Done Roger! You rather answered your own question.
roger
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by roger »

Thanks to Mr. P. we learned that the Romans invented the coin-op Toilet in the year 74 AD............

I have adjusted Roman coinage for inflation and calculate that it would cost over one million dollars to gain access to a modern day CRAPPER.

Surely, there would be a lot of wet pants while feeding all those quarters into the lock. '!' ROGER
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coppinpr
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by coppinpr »

The earliest pay toilet ever recorded was installed in 74 AD in Rome. Emperor Titus
Right date..wrong emperor. Vespasian (Titus father) installed the first pay toilets in 74AD (Titus didn't become emperor till 79AD)
As for Vespasian, his invention lives on in the French word vespasienne—a public urinal.

the first coin-operated pay toilets in the USA were installed by...Walt Disney, he opened the first studio-themed restaurant in California in the 1930's and installed coin-op toilets. Ronald Regan banned pay toilets in California in the 1970's when he was state governor

The most luxurious public toilet in London has to have been the massive underground one in Shepherd Bush Green. this had carved oak toilet doors, hand-made tiles throughout, and solid brass fittings. The urinal cisterns had glass fronts and goldfish living in them (a special flush system stopped the water from draining completely out) . it became more and more dilapidated and closed in the early 60's, It later opened as a snooker hall and is now a restaurant, I have no idea if the foods crap :lol:
sb toilet.jpg

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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by pennymachines »

coppinpr wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:32 pm
Right date..wrong emperor. Vespasian (Titus father) installed the first pay toilets in 74AD (Titus didn't become emperor till 79AD)
The source might, as you suggest, have been clearer to have called him Emperor Vespasian. In fact the original name of both father (Caesar Vespasianus Augustus) and son (Titus Vespasianus Augustus) was Titus Flavius Vespasianus. Confusing, eh?

But... the more I read about this historic pay-to-poo story, the crappier it looks. !!UHOH!!

We know Roman public toilets were un-cubicled (often open-air), side-by-side stone thrones set over a gutter, so we're not looking at any kind of coin-operated mechanical invention the like of which Heron of Alexandria might have come up with. In fact, the whole pay-to-pee story appears ill-founded, because it seems to stem from a urine tax imposed by Vespasian. This was the reintroduction of a levy originally imposed by Nero. Urine was a valuable commodity for tanning, wool processing, laundering (and tooth cleaning :o ), so it was those who took the piss (so to speak) who paid the tax, not those supplying it by using the facilities.

Pecunia non olet (money doesn't stink)
coppinpr wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:32 pm the first coin-operated pay toilets in the USA were installed by...Walt Disney, he opened the first studio-themed restaurant in California in the 1930's and installed coin-op toilets. Ronald Regan banned pay toilets in California in the 1970's when he was state governor
According to the source I quoted (and Wikipedia), "The first pay toilet in the United States was installed in 1910 in Terre Haute, Indiana. These first pay toilets cost a nickel." They were supplied by Indiana-based Nik-O-Lok Co., which was founded the same year. Reportedly, they also installed the vast majority of the locks for Walt Disney two decades later, and remain in business today.

Nik-O-Lok  advert
Nik-O-Lok advert


Nik-O-Lok Co., Indianapolis, Indiana
Nik-O-Lok Co., Indianapolis, Indiana

Coin-operated toilets largely disappeared from America thanks to widespread activism of the Los Angeles Community Action Network, California Assembly member, March Kong Fong, and some high school students who founded the Committee To End Pay Toilets In America (campaign journal, Free Toilet Paper).

CEPTIA banner
CEPTIA banner

Why don't we have pay toilets in America?

The first pay toilets in Britain were installed by Royal plumber, George Jennings, at the Great Exhibition which opened in 1851. They were christened "Monkey Closets", and you handed your penny to an attendant in exchange for, "a clean toilet seat, a towel, a comb and a shoe shine". These flushing loos continued to earn money in Hyde Park after the exhibition closed.

Toilet remains from ‘spend a penny’ exhibition uncovered in Hyde Park
ianvisits wrote:A few years later, in 1854, [Jennings] opened the first underground toilets, just outside the Royal Exchange in the City of London. These toilets were notable for being the first to have an automatic machine (invented by the magician, John Nevil Maskelyne) which required that anyone using a cubicle would have to pop a single penny into the machine to open the door.
Spending a penny
roger
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by roger »

Note that you can deposit either a penny or nickel.
Single "poop" or week's supply..... !BOGROLL!
For The Collector Who Has Everything.

NOTE: Lenox Manufacturing Co. has a very interesting history dating prior to the Civil War. Perhaps some member will check this out and run with it. !!ESCAPE!!
ROGER
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Antique 1891 Cast iron toilet paper dispenser (Lenox)
Antique 1891 Cast iron toilet paper dispenser (Lenox)
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by pennymachines »

One of these sold for over $10,000 with commission in 2005. :!:
Lenox Company ...founded in 1889 by Walter Scott Lenox as Lenox's Ceramic Art Company in Trenton, New Jersey (and still trading).

lenox.jpg

In the same year this dispenser was produced (1891) patent US459516 was filed by Seth Wheeler of New York for rolled, perforated, toilet paper. Presumably the Lenox dispenser was dependant upon this invention. The patent went viral in 2015 apparently, because it answers a much-debated question about which way round to mount your toilet roll. :roll:
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coppinpr
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by coppinpr »

The source might, as you suggest, have been clearer to have called him Emperor Vespasian.
in fact, the source could not have been any clearer it states "the emperor Titus installed the first pay toilets".... it was wrong, whatever Vespasian's name was originally he was never known as "the emperor Titus"
your very quick to correct me, which is good and not a problem, but don't twist it to make it look like I'm wrong when I'm not
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by pennymachines »

Although Vespasian's full name after accession to emperor was Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus (as was his son's), the source referring to him as 'Emperor Titus' is not just unclear, but incorrect. Sorry, I should have said that.

The canard that 'money doesn't smell' comes from an exchange between father and son recounted by Suetonius in The Lives of the Caesars:
When Titus found fault with him for contriving a tax upon public conveniences, he held a piece of money from the first payment to his son's nose, asking whether its odour was offensive to him. When Titus said "No," he replied, "Yet it comes from urine".
Again, as this tax was on the sale of urine, it's not really a precursor of 'spending a penny'.
roger
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by roger »

Mr. "P" indicated that a Lenox TOILET coin-op (pictured) sold for $ 10,000 in 2005 '!'
and that's no B.S. (excuse the pun) '!'
I believe that this pricey coin-op is connected to the Lenox Co. (pottery) and to the Gorham Manufacturing
Co. ( silverware)
How these two historic companies ended up making coin-op toilet paper dispensers is worthy of further investigation.
I will leave that to our history buffs to sort things out.

Note that the inscription on the dispenser is Lenox Co, Provodence R.I., 1891

REWARD..........First member to solve this mystery wins a McDonald's french fries.
roger
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by roger »

Mr. "P" posted that the Lenox coin-op dispenser was made by Lenox Ceramic Art Co. of Trenton, N.J.
I question why a ceramic company would cast an iron product. Also, the dispenser is inscribed Providence R.I.(not N.J).
There was a LENOX HOLDINGS which merged with Gorham Silver which was based in Providence. This may be
the link that ties everything together.
What makes this interesting is that two giant companies may be related to the Lenox coin-operated toilet-paper dispenser.

Apparently, my french fries were not enough of an incentive to get our history buffs to respond......accordingly, I have
added a coke to the original offer. !!YIPPEE!! @&@ ROGER
roger
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by roger »

Stingy Melbourne landlord installs a coin-operated flush-on toilet.
If he was my landlord, I would - - - - on his rug, leave a slug on the toilet, and walk out the door. ROGER
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coppinpr
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by coppinpr »

interesting that the coin-op only applies to the flush...might prove to be a false economy and a health hazard '!'
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john t peterson
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Re: When you gotta go...

Post by john t peterson »

Think you got the straight poop there, coppinpr.

J Peterson
In the outhouse, USA
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