BDR 'Breadbin' bandit

Somebody knows... Maybe you?
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bod
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BDR 'Breadbin' bandit

Post by bod »

I have just acquired a BDR Bristol 'Bread Bin', mainly because it has a completely different operation to the Mills/Sega mechanisms.

It basically works OK but I thought it had stopped paying out until I realised this was because the main payout tube was empty. Looking at the coin path I can see that this is because the coins are not getting into the correct chute to fill this tube. And yes, I've got photos...

SAM_0346a.jpg

The coin is held as shown until the arm is pulled, but then falls down the gap (and drops into the jackpot tube) instead of hitting the chute on the left (which would fill the payout tube).
If the small lever in the centre is pushed, when a coin is inserted it flies straight across the gap into the chute, but then of course you don't get to pull the arm. I assume this is some sort of manual fill lever.

There are a few empty screw holes around this part of the mech, could I be missing a part? Or am I just not understanding how the machine operates?

Anyone got a BDR and could be bothered to remove the top to post me a photo of how this part of the mech ought to look please?

Thanks
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badpenny
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by badpenny »

It's been a few years since I had one, but I seem to remember there are few versions with and without jp.
I seem to remember there should be trap door immediately after the coin detector and it sits right on top of the jp tube. The idea is everytime it's played a small wheel turns which regularly releases the trap door allowing a coin through to the jp bank. A different version may not have that? Try filling up the tube to see if they then overflow to the payout tube. However I feel you're missing that bit
BP
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by bod »

Hi BP,
Thanks for your reply. You are correct there is a trapdoor above the JP tubes which seems to work via a wheel operated by a pushrod, although at the moment the wheel doesn't advance - but that's another problem.
This problem is that my 6d doesn't make it to that trapdoor. I've annotated my photo to help.

SAM_0346ab.jpg

Any idea what shape the bit is that I'm missing?
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by pennymachines »

This is what mine looks like.
If you need some other angles you're going to have to tell me how you get into this beastie. I released the two side hooks - then what? !PUZZLED!
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badpenny
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by badpenny »

To get the Breadbin top off, can be a bit of a trial.
Firstly change your trousers, then put the kettle on (if it fits)
Remove screw in the centre of handle boss and ease handle off, try not use anything bigger than a number 5 sledge hammer to persuade it.
Undoing the locks and side tabs should pacify the neighbours that the heavy duty stuff is complete.
If the tastefully designed top isn't loose then you need to peer inside and search for any additional securing tabs. I've had a fair few of these and I remember that at least one did have some razor sharp, spring loaded tab not immediately visible yet tucked away inside the front door.
A large economy Elastoplast should stem the flow.

So now you have the top loose you'll discover because of the shape of the mech you can't lift it straight up and off. I think you have to rotate it through quite a series of interesting angles and shapes to get it clear. The reason so many of these machines have damaged reel symbols is because it seems impossible not to do this without catching the reels.

When it comes to returning it, frankly I wouldn't bother. You'd need a team of 5 NASA trained fitters, a fork lift truck and two units of your own particular blood group.

Good luck
BP
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by pennymachines »

Well BP your reply is equal part reassuring and disheartening. I was a bit ashamed to admit I couldn't see a way in and assumed I was missing something obvious as I stared blankly at a collection of inaccessible fasteners. I think I'll await Bod's response before going any deeper. !!UHOH!!
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by raj »

Mr Pm, I'm amazed you have never had a BDR before!!..anyway, first of all the handle has to come off, usually an Allan bolt or similar...don't lose the Woodruff key if it is fitted. The 2 pressed steel handles pull off 2 hooks inside the cabinet and are pulled from the bottom of the cabinet. The Bread Bin is quite heavy and very sharp, hence the damage to the reels. Carefully manoeuvre the case, and it will wriggle loose. If are brave enough to strip the cover, wear eye protection as the tension will spring all the stainless sheet into a totally new shape...good luck.
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by badpenny »

Well Mr P .......

I have to say I'm concerned you weren't prepared to take my word on the matter without it being underwritten by others!

How are you going to react when you get the ransom note?

BP
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by pennymachines »

I'm leaving well alone unless Bod comes back to tell me otherwise. I've had a few over the years, but the shocking truth is I never ventured further than inserting coins and pulling the handle. I have worked on the BMR bandits, but they're easy to get into.
Thanks for instructions anyway Raj.
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by bod »

Sorry I've not managed to get back on the site for a couple of days and have missed the recent banter.

Thanks for the pic Mr PM - I can see I'm missing some sort of guard/cover plate between the coin validator and the see-saw that fills the various coin tubes, secured by a couple of screws where I merely have holes. I feel a Blue Peter moment involving an aluminium drinks can and a pair of tin snips may be required.

I have to be honest and admit that so far I've not managed to do any more than you have with this machine. I have found the secret locking lever inside that has enabled me to remove the cover without much kerfuffle although I haven't attempted a refit as yet.

Assuming you still have the cover removed and have not shredded yourself in the ritual suicide apparently known as reassembly - is there any chance you could post a pic of the left side of the see-saw chute showing the ratcheted wheel that causes it to tip? My wheel doesn't advance, it just rocks back and forth as the handle is pulled, but I found a curved piece of spring steel loose in the bottom of the mech and I'd like to think this somehow stops the wheel from turning back and forces it to rotate on the ratchet. If only I could see how this might be mounted of course, and I not barking madly up the wrong tree...

I can see this machine is going to be quite a challenge for my restricted knowledge and it will need several coats of looking-at before I start to take it apart. Anyone professing to understand it and wants to post a video - please be my guest.
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by pennymachines »

OK, I got the lid off without much trouble once I realized that the mech is fixed to the base and not designed to be released by the side clamps. I don't think it's been off before, judging by its reluctance to shift after the handle was removed. There was nothing else holding it but sheer belligerence. The four worrying screw-like things connecting top to base turn out to be locating pins only. I can see these being a real pain in the posterior if the tiny and hard to reach handle screw seizes up.

For now just some pictures of the bit you appear to be missing - three quite intricate shapes held together by a couple of screws. This provides a little bridge to carry the coin over the gap. I'll take the other pictures when I have a moment.
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BDR-p.jpg
BDR-p1.jpg
BDR-p2.jpg
BDR-p3.jpg
BDR-p4.jpg
BDR-p5.jpg
BDR-p6.jpg
bod
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by bod »

Blimey! A lot more complicated than I thought it would be. Many thanks for taking the parts off and photographing them for me. I understand the forked bit where the coin slides across the gap, but I've no idea what function the other bits perform. I suppose I won't until I get the coin to cross the gap and then it will probably become blindingly obvious as my coin disappears somewhere I don't want it to go. Looks like I'm going to need a bigger drinks can... or more probably a piece of thicker metal.

Also noticed that your trapdoor thingy is upside down to mine. Yours has the mounting rod block on the top of the see saw but mine is underneath so the see saw is a smooth chute. Does yours work OK like that?

Now I'm starting to wonder how many other 9-dimensional shaped parts I might be missing from this machine?

Any other photos you care to take, of any part and from any angle - either of the mechanism or any ex-girlfriends :woops: - would be gratefully appreciated !!PHOTO!!
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by pennymachines »

Here you can see how the coin gets to the payout hopper (sorry about the dismal quality).
The last of these runs hit the jackpot, but I stopped filming!



Here's the left side of the see-saw chute showing springs etc. You're correct - mine was stuck upside-down; now freed to do its job again. One of the three parts I photographed above (the horizontal piece) is of spring metal and rests at its curved extremity against the ratchet wheel shown below.
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ratchet1.jpg
ratchet2.jpg
bod
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by bod »

Thank you, that helps a lot. It also solves my problem of why the ratchet wheel isn't advancing. I found a spare curved piece of spring steel in the bottom of the cabinet when I removed the lid and was sure it belonged here, but you have shown me that it is the horizontal part (of the 3 bits I'm missing) that latches the wheel.

So I wonder where my mystery bit goes? I'm sure I'll find out once I get around to making the parts to get my 6d over to the chute and can trace the mech operation a little further.

Keep your machine handy, I've a hunch I'll need it again. Cheers, Bod.
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by pennymachines »

bod wrote:So I wonder where my mystery bit goes?
Post a picture of it and I'll see if I can answer that.
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by bod »

Heh heh, mad fool.... :lol:
OK you asked to see it. I can't even be sure it is part of the mech, I found it loose inside the cabinet but it may just have fallen inside.

SAM_0347.JPG

I was going to start making some missing bits today but it is bloody cold and wet and I have just discovered my shed has a leaky roof. My life just keeps getting better. So instead I thought I'd stay warm and post you the photo.

I've also found another slight 'issue' today with the arm pull. There is a ratchet assembly on the right that is supposed to ensure the arm is pulled right down before it is allowed to return. However the pins are not engaging on the toothed rack, they just rotate freely in their housing. I think I'm missing springs or something here too, any chance of a pic of that bit please? It doesn't really affect the operation but I'd be interested to fix it if it is something simple.

Many thanks.
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by pennymachines »

A cursory glance at one of the two clocks suggests your loose part may be from there.
I've sketched around the three missing parts to give you a fighting chance.

bdr-draw.gif

bod wrote:However the pins are not engaging on the toothed rack, they just rotate freely in their housing. I think I'm missing springs or something here too, any chance of a pic of that bit please?
Two spring tensioned pawls separated by a washer.
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bdr-armratchet.jpg
bod
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by bod »

Bollocks! Another piece missing from my machine, as you can see below:

SAM_0348.JPG

At least this bit should be fairly simple to make. Could you give me some approx dimensions of the bracket please Mr PM? Thank you also for taking the time to draw out the size and shape of the other parts I need to make, that will be very handy. I can have a go at knocking some bits up and then measure them against your drawing to see if they are anywhere close... ;-)

I can't wait to start stripping down this machine to see all the other parts I haven't got. !!SUICIDAL!!
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by raj »

I can't wait to start stripping down this machine to see all the other parts I haven't got. !!SUICIDAL!!
the old saying of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' definitely applies to this bandit!! :smash:
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Re: Anyone with a BDR Bristol?

Post by pennymachines »

Spring bracket.
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